What Is Truth?
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26-12-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 02:37 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 08:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  To what? What are you on about?

that "Truth" is a majority.

But it is not. You are talking about public opinion, not truth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-12-2013, 11:12 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 04:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 02:37 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  that "Truth" is a majority.

But it is not. You are talking about public opinion, not truth.

It's a tough one... but truth is Objective ultimately.

We don't create truth, we discover it imo...

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26-12-2013, 11:33 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2013 11:43 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 02:59 PM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  I think that truth only applies in a mathematical sense. I think saying that a circle is round or that a triangle has three sides would be true statements. Nobody bothers to say such things because we already know them.

But when we get to things such as human emotions, then truth has no meaning because how we feel can change. It may be true that I feel great today but on another day it may be false.

mathematics proves the existence of Truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_%28truth%29

1 + 1 = 2 (true)

I know these are religious type of men, but they are credited with such major advances in mathematics they are pretty much the authors of our modern understanding of it.

pay no mind if they are theist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler


/did you know Newton predicted the world to end in 2060ish? now that is freaking scary cause this guy is a scientist... not someone scrying into a reflecting pool like Nostradamus.

I wonder when the media and Hollywood and likes are going to pick up on this? Y2K came and gone, 2012 came and gone and we have no end of the world date to fear anymore Smile

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26-12-2013, 11:51 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 12:36 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
and Science/Mathematics just turns out to be a religious quest or for Truth... (a practice)

all of our pioneers were pretty much Monks or Religious Men...

please don't mention the Persians, they assimilate knowledge, and have always discovered via conquest... (the spoils of war)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas





what is truth? -- give the video at least 15mins...

[Solved]

"Truth is Order" (mathematical beauty)

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27-12-2013, 01:25 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(19-12-2013 02:12 PM)Free Wrote:  What's your take on this rather philosophical question?

who/what else will give us an answer but ourselves.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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27-12-2013, 01:36 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 01:40 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 01:25 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 02:12 PM)Free Wrote:  What's your take on this rather philosophical question?

who/what else will give us an answer but ourselves.

"Nature"

there is order in nature... and therefore the cosmos?

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27-12-2013, 01:38 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 11:33 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  mathematics proves the existence of Truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_%28truth%29
1 + 1 = 2 (true)

Mathematics consists of axioms and logic. Axioms are unproven and don't in any way define truth, and everything else derives from the axioms. It is idiotic to claim "1 + 1 = 2 (true)" in a discussion about what "true" means without understanding the axioms, definitions, and logic that support that claim[1]. To further claim that mathematics proves the existence because it is possible to derive propositions that are consistent with your own axioms is disingenuous in the extreme and is an equivocation fallacy. Oooh oooh - someone clever and important uses the word "true", therefore my concept of truth is valid and applicable. Take some time to actually learn about the ideas you are cherrypicking from. All I have gotten so far from this thread is that you want "true" to be a woo term that can mean something deep and mystical, and that you don't really care about finding out whether things are true or not.

(26-12-2013 11:51 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  and Science/Mathematics just turns out to be a religious quest or for Truth... (a practice)

Yep, sounds like I&I to me.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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27-12-2013, 03:52 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 04:54 AM by Chippy.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 11:33 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  mathematics proves the existence of Truth.

No it doesn't. Mathematical statements are true because they are tautologous, i.e either side of the equation sign just states the same thing in two different ways.

1 + 1 = 2 (1)

is logically the same as

All bachelors are unmarried men (2)

(1) and (2) are true by virtue of the definitions of their constituents.

Quote:/did you know Newton predicted the world to end in 2060ish? now that is freaking scary cause this guy is a scientist... not someone scrying into a reflecting pool like Nostradamus.

Newton believed in alchemy also. So what? Newton's interest in alchemy doesn't make alchemy scientific. Newton's predictions were based on his reading of the Bible not on scientific method.

Also, there was no such thing as "science" in Newton's time. Newton was what was termed a "natural philosopher". Newton's religious and mystical concerns co-existed with his mathematical physics because there was no such thing as science and consequently no such thing as pseudoscience.
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27-12-2013, 08:23 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 08:27 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
yep... we're doing it again... that truth and order thing Consider

maybe we should argue it with James Burke? one of the most intriguing minds of the Western World...

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27-12-2013, 08:48 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 08:54 AM by Luminon.)
RE: What Is Truth?
The Truth is the universe itself, or something as great and complex as the universe. Everything else is a partial truth, limited by its context, language, means of expression and so on. Everything is true within an appropriate context. Thus I must agree with James Burke, truth is order.

Mystics say there is a path to the Truth in the center of our being far beyond our mundane consciousness, if we meditate deeply enough and long enough. I say it certainly feels like that, but good luck proving that it is actually true. Something may be subjectively proven true beyond all doubt, but not objectively, until the objective means such as technology catches up in terms of sensitivity and broadness of paradigm. Thus some people may live in a "different universe".

I side with the majority of truth. Its downside is, that it's still unknown or only subjective. I take care to never contradict the objectively known minority of truth (science), but never be satisfied with it, as it is clearly not representative of the universe.
What I regret is the "digitalization" of brain, we see brain as a computer with bits and infinitely rewritable medium and memory. We believe anything in existence can be freely digitalized, and copied into the brain MK I and thus understood. What can't be understood by a regular chum in the street, is not real. That is not so. The brain is like a muscle. There are cerebral acrobats and weight lifters who can perform feats of understanding and creativity that defy common brain processes. There are brain builders just like there are body builders and we are not equal in that aspect.

Facing the unknown is actually a great intellectual exercise. Our brain hates uncertainty and tries to weave a closed sphere of knowledge that is true and predictable. But also doesn't tell us anything new. Believing our truths can imprison us in the same way as believing our own lies. Thus the deepest contemplation that goes beyond our routine thought may be calming, but also stressing at the same time. Breaking lesser truths to make place for the greater ones is a hard work and dangerous one. But it is the only way how to face the great questions. Most people give up on the great questions, because they lack the ability to break and outgrow their own truths. I think that is natural, people usually develop their humanity, their ego on lies and partial truths and only then they learn to use this asset for the truth. I know this sounds unrelated, but having a strong ego is a great asset in searching for the truth, it's the only way to be really good at it. The next step is devoting this strong ego to the truth only.
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