What Is Truth?
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27-12-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
In my original post I posited the following:

Truth is all that which can be determined to exist.

I didn't give much of an explanation as to why I accept that position, so I will make an attempt to explain it further below.

Often we look at "truth" as something that is in direct contrast to what is not true. This is in fact a reasonable and logical position. So why do I think that truth is all that which can be determined to exist?

If something cannot be observed to exist in some way, then the claim of its existence cannot be determined to be true.

Even in the justice system, if someone says that someone else committed a crime, it cannot be verified without some kind of evidence to support it. If nothing observable can support the accusation of the crime, then it is determined to not be true.

Hence, even in the example above, the action of the crime does not exist, and therefore is not true, all because there was no evidence to support it.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, if someone makes a claim that someone else committed a crime, and the evidence is observed to support it, then the fact is that a crime was indeed committed. A broken window, a dead body, and a bloody knife stuck in the victim's back are obvious self-evident indications of a crime being committed. Hence, it is most probably true that a crime was committed because it can be determined to exist.

I don't really think that the question of "What is truth" is actually a philosophical question at all. In fact, it's more of a question relative to science. To me, at least, it all comes down to what can be determined to exist via observation by one means or another.

Even if someone lies about something, and no evidence can be found to support the lie, it can be fairly determined that the subject matter of the lie simply does not exist, and therefore is not true. Hence, the person who created the fib can be fairly accused of being a liar for the simple matter that the subject matter has no place in existence. The subject matter cannot be observed in some way.

Hence, my original position remains unchanged despite all the good arguments here.

Truth is all that which can be determined to exist.

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27-12-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 08:48 AM)Luminon Wrote:  The Truth is the universe itself, or something as great and complex as the universe. Everything else is a partial truth, limited by its context, language, means of expression and so on. Everything is true within an appropriate context. Thus I must agree with James Burke, truth is order.

language must then be just our expression of this truth and order?




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27-12-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 09:53 AM)Free Wrote:  In my original post I posited the following:

Truth is all that which can be determined to exist.

truth exists, therefore order exists... it is only the job of the mind which discovers/uncovers it.

Ayn Rand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29

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27-12-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 09:57 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 09:53 AM)Free Wrote:  In my original post I posited the following:

Truth is all that which can be determined to exist.

truth exists, therefore order exists... it is only the job of the mind which discovers/uncovers it.

Ayn Rand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29

That is a philosophical position, and not one rooted in scientific fact.

As mentioned in my previous post, truth is not a philosophical question.

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27-12-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(26-12-2013 11:12 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 04:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  But it is not. You are talking about public opinion, not truth.

It's a tough one... but truth is Objective ultimately.

We don't create truth, we discover it imo...

Right, so the majority doesn't determine truth, reality does.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 08:48 AM)Luminon Wrote:  The Truth is the universe itself, or something as great and complex as the universe. Everything else is a partial truth, limited by its context, language, means of expression and so on. Everything is true within an appropriate context. Thus I must agree with James Burke, truth is order.

Truth is never limited, only our perceptions of it.

Quote:Mystics say there is a path to the Truth in the center of our being far beyond our mundane consciousness, if we meditate deeply enough and long enough. I say it certainly feels like that, but good luck proving that it is actually true. Something may be subjectively proven true beyond all doubt, but not objectively, until the objective means such as technology catches up in terms of sensitivity and broadness of paradigm. Thus some people may live in a "different universe".

There is no such thing as "subjectively proven true beyond all doubt".

Quote:I side with the majority of truth. Its downside is, that it's still unknown or only subjective. I take care to never contradict the objectively known minority of truth (science), but never be satisfied with it, as it is clearly not representative of the universe.

Scientific knowledge provides us with our best approximation to the truth.
And the majority is not always right.

Quote:What I regret is the "digitalization" of brain, we see brain as a computer with bits and infinitely rewritable medium and memory. We believe anything in existence can be freely digitalized, and copied into the brain MK I and thus understood. What can't be understood by a regular chum in the street, is not real. That is not so. The brain is like a muscle. There are cerebral acrobats and weight lifters who can perform feats of understanding and creativity that defy common brain processes. There are brain builders just like there are body builders and we are not equal in that aspect.

Straw man. Who is the 'we' that sees the brain as a digital computer?

Quote:Facing the unknown is actually a great intellectual exercise. Our brain hates uncertainty and tries to weave a closed sphere of knowledge that is true and predictable. But also doesn't tell us anything new. Believing our truths can imprison us in the same way as believing our own lies. Thus the deepest contemplation that goes beyond our routine thought may be calming, but also stressing at the same time. Breaking lesser truths to make place for the greater ones is a hard work and dangerous one. But it is the only way how to face the great questions. Most people give up on the great questions, because they lack the ability to break and outgrow their own truths. I think that is natural, people usually develop their humanity, their ego on lies and partial truths and only then they learn to use this asset for the truth. I know this sounds unrelated, but having a strong ego is a great asset in searching for the truth, it's the only way to be really good at it. The next step is devoting this strong ego to the truth only.

Word salad.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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27-12-2013, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 02:12 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 10:15 AM)Free Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 09:57 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  truth exists, therefore order exists... it is only the job of the mind which discovers/uncovers it.

Ayn Rand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29

That is a philosophical position, and not one rooted in scientific fact.

As mentioned in my previous post, truth is not a philosophical question.

scientific fact or the search for fact is rooted in philosophical questions...

philosophy is the parent of science...

science is there to serve the philosophers...

~~~

and Darwin is so small... he's hardly a footnote.

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27-12-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 10:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 11:12 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  It's a tough one... but truth is Objective ultimately.

We don't create truth, we discover it imo...

Right, so the majority doesn't determine truth, reality does.

"Truth in its essential nature is that systematic coherence which is the character of a significant whole (p. 76)."

"Our metaphysics thus explains the nature of truth, by providing the entities needed to enter into correspondence relations."

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

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27-12-2013, 02:27 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 02:52 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
Philosophy is the practice of Universality...

it is cure to the practices of atheism and theism... but then again Truth is universal.

The majority of theistic practices practice peace or love, it doesn't offend me personally, but it doesn't advance our understand either, or (us) as a human race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalit...losophy%29

[universal logic]

Truth is considered to be universal if it is valid in all times and places. In this case, it is seen as eternal or as absolute. The relativist conception denies the existence of some or all universal truths, particularly ethical ones (through moral relativism). Mathematics is a field in which those truths discovered, in relation to the field of mathematics, are typically considered of universal scope.

"Gravity Kills" screw evolution... Gravity is Universal death (the opposite of life) Gravity is against nature...

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