What Is Truth?
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27-12-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 02:27 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  Philosophy is the practice of Universality...

The cure to the religious practices of atheism and theism... but then again Truth is universal.

The majority of theistic practices practice peace or love, it doesn't offend me personally.

Bullshit, universality is a school of philosophy, not the other way around.

Philosophy is not a cure to atheism nor theism; philosophers bring their own beliefs into the mix.

And your last statement is arguable; you fail to make a distinction between doctrine and practice.

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27-12-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 02:34 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Bullshit, universality is a school of philosophy, not the other way around.

Philosophy is not a cure to atheism nor theism; philosophers bring their own beliefs into the mix.

And your last statement is arguable; you fail to make a distinction between doctrine and practice.

gravity is against the nature of our consciousness and our being...

there is no denying the truth!

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27-12-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 03:10 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 02:34 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Bullshit, universality is a school of philosophy, not the other way around.

Philosophy is not a cure to atheism nor theism; philosophers bring their own beliefs into the mix.

And your last statement is arguable; you fail to make a distinction between doctrine and practice.

gravity is against the nature of our consciousness and our being...

there is no denying the truth!

First of all, what the fuck are you talking about?

Secondly, I'm convinced it's a non-sequitur regardless.

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27-12-2013, 07:29 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 09:55 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  language must then be just our expression of this truth and order?
Yes, to a degree. Language reflects some basic properties of space-time, such as linear sequence of events in time. Language is also a part of the semantic triangle, which consists of a sound, an idea and an object of reference. The sound is clear enough, but the object is the aspect of reality and the idea represents our ability to recognize this reality.

However, it does not mean that every language will follow the subject-verb-object structure.

(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no such thing as "subjectively proven true beyond all doubt".
Care to explain? It seems to me that people act with certainty even on subjective data. By your reasoning, we'd be unable to survive alone, because we'd have no certain data to act upon.

(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Scientific knowledge provides us with our best approximation to the truth.
And the majority is not always right.
The majority is always unknown or unproven, that's what I say. That puts our proven things into perspective, which is useful for forming new theories. This usefulness lies in lesser rigidity when breaking up an old paradigm, thus speeding up the development of science.

(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Straw man. Who is the 'we' that sees the brain as a digital computer?
Everyone except actual neurologists. All the skeptical community, which uses popularized computer science concepts to understand the brain. Everyone who takes seriously the idea of transferring people's consciousness into a digital form.

(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Word salad.
No word salad, but a carefully chosen hashtag of an experience. You lack the experience, therefore you can't understand the words. Which proves what I said, brain is not like a computer, it can't just take in the words and understand them. Words alone are not objective.
Therefore, much of our life is based on subjective conviction and action. Assuming it's true, subjectivity thus could be defined as the range of impact of a given information.
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27-12-2013, 07:47 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 07:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 09:55 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  language must then be just our expression of this truth and order?
Yes, to a degree. Language reflects some basic properties of space-time, such as linear sequence of events in time. Language is also a part of the semantic triangle, which consists of a sound, an idea and an object of reference. The sound is clear enough, but the object is the aspect of reality and the idea represents our ability to recognize this reality.

However, it does not mean that every language will follow the subject-verb-object structure.

(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no such thing as "subjectively proven true beyond all doubt".
Care to explain? It seems to me that people act with certainty even on subjective data. By your reasoning, we'd be unable to survive alone, because we'd have no certain data to act upon.

We can only act with certainty on objective data.

Quote:
(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Scientific knowledge provides us with our best approximation to the truth.
And the majority is not always right.
The majority is always unknown or unproven, that's what I say. That puts our proven things into perspective, which is useful for forming new theories. This usefulness lies in lesser rigidity when breaking up an old paradigm, thus speeding up the development of science.

My comment was in denial of the majority determining what the truth is.
I can't figure out what your comment means.

Quote:
(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Straw man. Who is the 'we' that sees the brain as a digital computer?
Everyone except actual neurologists. All the skeptical community, which uses popularized computer science concepts to understand the brain. Everyone who takes seriously the idea of transferring people's consciousness into a digital form.

No, not everyone but neurologists. People often use the computer as a metaphor for the mind. Metaphor.

Quote:
(27-12-2013 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Word salad.
No word salad, but a carefully chosen hashtag of an experience. You lack the experience, therefore you can't understand the words. Which proves what I said, brain is not like a computer, it can't just take in the words and understand them. Words alone are not objective.
Therefore, much of our life is based on subjective conviction and action. Assuming it's true, subjectivity thus could be defined as the range of impact of a given information.

Precisely what experience do I lack?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2013, 08:55 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 07:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  No word salad, but a carefully chosen hashtag of an experience. You lack the experience, therefore you can't understand the words.

Yes word salad. This is your magic chalk that you use to create an escape door. The problem is that your oversized clown shoes produce a clumsy and comedic attempt at a clean escape.

You never explain your word salads (and there is now a veritable buffet of them) because they can't be explained. They are just more pseudoscientific, pseudophilosophical mumbo-jumbo. Your appeal to your subjective experiences is really no different from a religious person appealing to some subjective experience that to them confirms the truth of some scripture. Your repeated use of your magic chalk just show up the abject poverty of your thought.

Quote:Which proves what I said, brain is not like a computer, it can't just take in the words and understand them. Words alone are not objective.

The consensus view of philosophers of mind, neuroscientists, cognitive scientists and neurologist is that brain does not have a Von Neumann architecture. The term computer is too broad and allows for the possibility that someone may design and build a computer that does have an architecture that resembles the mammalian brain. This is a strawman that you keep invoking presumably because you need to custom-build the arguments that you can refute. This too is another facet of your clownish behaviour.
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27-12-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
It seems to me that in the last couple of decades, the word truth has undergone a subtle transition in it's accepted meaning. Truth in the older sense, imho simply meant factually correct. As in universally true and demonstrably so.

Now it gets used in the my truth/your truth context and to me it's a misrepresentation of the meaning of the word. It's my thinking that there's no such thing as 'my' truth, only 'the' truth.

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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27-12-2013, 10:50 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 07:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Care to explain? It seems to me that people act with certainty even on subjective data. By your reasoning, we'd be unable to survive alone, because we'd have no certain data to act upon.

Our cognitive and perceptual faculties were not naturally selected for their capacity to do science rather they were selected to solve more mundane problems such as hazard avoidance and mate selection and that adequately.

Outside of that environment of evolutionary adaptation our perceptions and cognitions reliably let us down. The raison d'etre of experiment designs such as the double-blind placebo controlled study is to overcome the deficiencies of our perceptual and cognitve faculties, to eliminate our subjectivity as a factor from the test results. If our survival as a species depended on understanding our solar system we would have become extinct when our ancestors embraced geocentric and flat-earth models.

But even for more mundane (survival) applications subjective perceptions are just adequate and will even let us down there too, e.g. desert mirages that appear to show water, conceiving weather as the result of the intentions of a mind.
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27-12-2013, 10:59 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 07:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  The majority is always unknown or unproven, that's what I say. That puts our proven things into perspective, which is useful for forming new theories. This usefulness lies in lesser rigidity when breaking up an old paradigm, thus speeding up the development of science.

Your language shows that you are scientifically illiterate. There is no proof in science, nothing is proven in science. The idea of proof exists only in mathematics and logic. In science there is evidence, support, confirmation, verification and falsification. A scientific theory is never proven, it is confirmed or verified. Every result in science is provisional and open to revision.

What you are characterising as "rigidity" is really the standard which requires confirmed objective data. Revising scientific theories on the basis of some Czech clown's subjective experience is not an indication of "rigidity", it is an indication that science works.
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27-12-2013, 11:10 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 11:22 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(27-12-2013 03:13 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  First of all, what the fuck are you talking about?

Secondly, I'm convinced it's a non-sequitur regardless.

I'm telling you man! we have to get off this planet...

to the space between the galaxies where there are no stars, to the intergalactic medium.

Gravity is the reason why we age, our cells are directly tied to the 1G of gravitational force on this planet.

Everything is gravity, even time... and astrophysicist suspect a black hole at the center of most every galaxy.

Escape is the only logical recourse... we must get back to the Nexus.

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Earthride is doomed...

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