What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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28-01-2015, 05:49 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(27-01-2015 11:19 PM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  As a convicted felon, I am acutely aware of the of disparity it is to NOT be able to protect myself and my family with a firearm. That being the case, I still have one. Let that sink in a bit Yes

"Breaking the law...breaking the law" -Judas Priest

And furthermore, even first world citizens have the obligation to fight off corrupt officials such as the account in the battle of Athens Tennessee. A long time ago but still relevant to a lot of small towns in our country.

I know a lot of people in Canada who legally own a gun, but illegally store the ammunition close enough to be able to use it in a home defense scenario. Many of these guys work in law enforcement and are fully aware of the possible consequences and, having weighed the options, keep their guns within useable distance at home rather than separately locking up the firearms and the ammunition as prescribed by Canadian law.

Same principle Smile Those who are more directly aware of the threats out there are the ones most uncomfortable without a means to defend themselves.

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28-01-2015, 06:13 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(27-01-2015 10:12 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  I've got about a hundred guns and I like gun owners as long as they don't have too many guns. I think 200-250 is about the maximum number anyone should have.

I go shooting often and I find it very relaxing. I love to hunt and I especially love elk and bison meat. I know a lot of people hate guns and hunting and that's fine with me. I will never invite those people to go shooting or hunting with me. And, as long as they don't bring up the subject, I will never even talk about guns and hunting around them.

When I worked in a gunshop some years back - my collection swelled to about 120 guns - with slightly more rifles than pistols, and just a half dozen shotguns.

I got really good deals on all of them, in fact I spent more than I earned while working there. I've since thinned out the herd. After all - why do I really NEED 3 SKS's??? (1 Chinese, 1 Russian, 1 Yugoslavian... I kept the Russian) At one point I had 12 30-06's. I had a 250 Savage and two 257 Roberts rifles - all basically the same. (sold the Savage, cut one down and gave it to my sister to hunt with)
Same with pistols -- looking at my insurance paperwork at one point I had one or more guns chambered in these calibers - .22lr,.30 carbine, .32 S+W .32 H+R Mag,9mm, .380, 38 Spl, .357, .40 S+W 10MM, .41 Mag, .44 Mag, 45ACP and .480 Ruger.

I got a table at the Grand Rapids gun show and at bargain prices - managed to make a profit on all guns I sold, plus got rid of all the ones I wanted to get rid of.

.......................................

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28-01-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 05:49 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 11:19 PM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  As a convicted felon, I am acutely aware of the of disparity it is to NOT be able to protect myself and my family with a firearm. That being the case, I still have one. Let that sink in a bit Yes

"Breaking the law...breaking the law" -Judas Priest

And furthermore, even first world citizens have the obligation to fight off corrupt officials such as the account in the battle of Athens Tennessee. A long time ago but still relevant to a lot of small towns in our country.

I know a lot of people in Canada who legally own a gun, but illegally store the ammunition close enough to be able to use it in a home defense scenario. Many of these guys work in law enforcement and are fully aware of the possible consequences and, having weighed the options, keep their guns within useable distance at home rather than separately locking up the firearms and the ammunition as prescribed by Canadian law.

Same principle Smile Those who are more directly aware of the threats out there are the ones most uncomfortable without a means to defend themselves.

Huh? It's illegal to have a loaded gun at home?
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28-01-2015, 07:06 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2015 07:09 AM by yakherder.)
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 06:47 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(28-01-2015 05:49 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I know a lot of people in Canada who legally own a gun, but illegally store the ammunition close enough to be able to use it in a home defense scenario. Many of these guys work in law enforcement and are fully aware of the possible consequences and, having weighed the options, keep their guns within useable distance at home rather than separately locking up the firearms and the ammunition as prescribed by Canadian law.

Same principle Smile Those who are more directly aware of the threats out there are the ones most uncomfortable without a means to defend themselves.

Huh? It's illegal to have a loaded gun at home?

It's complicated, and has to do with both intent (difficult to prove in court), the type of gun, and its classification. For varmint hunting rifles, in a place where you can rationally say you need them (you live on a farm out in the boonies and have a specific need to protect your livestock), you can get away with having an unrestricted weapon close by that could be classified as ideal for that purpose, but not with a round in the chamber.

The only time you can carry an unrestricted gun outside is when you are hunting or, again, when you have a legally rational reason for doing so, such as you live in a place with a bunch of angry polar bears.

Restricted guns, which include a list of somewhat arbitrary semi auto rifles and all handguns that are not completely prohibited, are only able to be used at a licensed firing range. When at home, the gun and the ammunition must be locked up and stored separately. They must also be transported locked up, and only directly to and from the range.

If you wouldn't have a chance in hell of claiming that you used it for the above mentioned purpose, then it has to be locked up either way.

But it's all so hard to monitor anyway. It seems like half the gang bangers we take in have a concealed prohibited weapon. The only time you'll actually get in trouble for storage issues is if you draw attention through some other means, such as in this case:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/04/...ith-a-gun/
In which a guy got drug through the court system, at an astronomical cost to both sides, for firing warning shots at some people attacking him in his home. First they tried to charge him for the shooting itself (again, keep in mind he didn't even hit anyone, just fired warning shots). But when it became obvious that he had a pretty clear cut case of self defense, they abandoned that effort and instead charged him with improper firearm storage, since he couldn't have possibly got to his ammunition in time to defend himself if had been stored properly.

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28-01-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
I think I'm a pretty good guy.
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28-01-2015, 06:42 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(26-01-2015 05:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-01-2015 05:37 PM)thecontemplator Wrote:  I don't think guns are evil but it seems they cause more accidents then good.

In the U.S. about 600 or 700 people die in firearms accidents. Compare that with the number of crimes prevented and lives saved; also compare to other causes of accidental death.

Speaking of unsupported assertions, I'd like to see some support on the lives saved and crime prevented comment

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28-01-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
Ok, I couldn't wait for an answer and went looking myself. The first link I found after googling was this article on Slate.com: Guns Kill Children

I'm usually a little hesitant to throw an article from a publication like Slate into a debate like this, but they cite all their sources for all their conclusions. Some of the sources are old (just clicking through, at least one is from 2002 and this article was written in June of last year), so I'm more than willing to look at newer details.

But, taking this at its word, they don't agree with you:
Crucially, these deaths are not offset by defensive gun use. As one study found, for every time a gun is used legally in self-defense at home, there are “four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.” A study of adolescents in California found that there were 13 times as many threatening as self-defensive uses of guns. Of the defensive encounters, many arose in confrontations that became hostile because of the presence of a firearm.

As for "accidental" deaths, guns come in 3rd per the CDC, behind poisoning and auto accidents.

I don't understand how so many people die from poisoning but I assume it's just accidental. Let's ignore that for now. What's most amazing to me is the auto vs. gun death numbers. In 2010, where these numbers come from, there were 33,783 people killed in car accidents. In the same year, there were 32,351 people killed by guns (this is all gun deaths - accidental, murder, whatever).

Those numbers are really, really close. But, how many motor vehicles are out there on a given day vs how many people are out waiving guns around? Motor vehicles are ubiquitous. Outside of people who live in a city with public transportation, I'd wager that Americans are in a moving vehicle, on average, at least once a day for 5 of the 7 days in a week. I couldn't find a good link for the number of car accidents per year in the US, but the number of fatalities seems to hover in that mid to low 30,000 range year on year. There must be tens of millions of cars on the road in the US on any given day, and there must be tens of thousands of accidents, big and small, on a daily basis. And yet, guns take about as many lives annually as cars do.

couple of thoughts on that number.

First, that 600 to 800 people killed a year is clearly wrong. Second, if that number is accurate (and the CDC has no reason to lie in its counting), then the idea that guns are perfectly safe when handled correctly is blown away. I realize that the details behind those 32,000+ deaths matter, but that is not all murders. According to wikipedia, the murder rate in the US in 2010 (the same year as my deaths stats) was 4.8 people per 100,000. That 32k number represents a ratio of 10.4 people per 100,000. So, even if every single homicide in 2010 was committed with a gun (and I'll bet the deed to my house that is not the case), that is still almost 6 gun deaths per 100,000 people that died by guns that were not murder victims.

Those are very damning numbers. It's not a good story at all.

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28-01-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 06:42 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(26-01-2015 05:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  In the U.S. about 600 or 700 people die in firearms accidents. Compare that with the number of crimes prevented and lives saved; also compare to other causes of accidental death.

Speaking of unsupported assertions, I'd like to see some support on the lives saved and crime prevented comment

How about a few in just the last week?

A homeowner in Tomball, Texas was asleep in his house when a pair of armed criminals kicked in the front door. The homeowner awoke, retrieved a gun and went to investigate. The homeowner encountered the intruders while at the top of the home’s stairs, and fired at them. The home invaders returned fire, but eventually fled the scene. Police believe no one was injured during the incident.

Between the homeowner and intruders, at least 30 shots were fired. The amount of firepower required to repel this home invasion illustrates the dangers to law abiding citizens posed by arbitrary restrictions on magazine capacity.
KHOU, Houston, Texas 01/26/15, KPRC, Houston, Texas 01/26/15


A knife-wielding woman entered an Arby’s in Vernal, Utah and attempted to rob the restaurant. At the same time, a Right-to-Carry permit holder was ordering from the drive–thru. When the person taking his order did not respond, the permit holder went inside the restaurant, where an employee alerted him to the robbery in progress. The permit holder went back to his vehicle, retrieved a gun, then confronted the robber. When the thief moved towards him with the knife, the permit holder pointed the firearm at her. Eventually the criminal was disarmed and the permit holder was able to hold the thief at gunpoint until police arrived.

The robber faces charges of possession of a controlled substance and aggravated robbery.
Deseret News, Deseret, Utah, 01/26/15


A pair of surveyors were on a job site in Plantation, Fla. when a man armed with a gun approached them, ordered the workers to the ground, and demanded their property. While on the ground, one of the surveyors drew a gun and shot the criminal, ending the robbery.

In an interview with a local media outlet, the armed citizen’s employer described the surveyor as “a great kid.” The employer went on to say that robbers targeting surveyors is a significant problem, stating, “There is actually a law enforcement database of all of the robberies that are going on that are affecting surveyors and there has been hundreds of instruments and equipment stolen.”
WTVJ, Miami, Fla. 01/22/15

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28-01-2015, 07:23 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 07:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  Ok, I couldn't wait for an answer and went looking myself. The first link I found after googling was this article on Slate.com: Guns Kill Children
<snip>
I don't understand how so many people die from poisoning but I assume it's just accidental. Let's ignore that for now. What's most amazing to me is the auto vs. gun death numbers. In 2010, where these numbers come from, there were 33,783 people killed in car accidents. In the same year, there were 32,351 people killed by guns (this is all gun deaths - accidental, murder, whatever).

Those are very damning numbers. It's not a good story at all.

Accidental gun deaths are 600 - 800 per year, not thousands.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-01-2015, 07:38 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
my opinion of gun owners?
just want to shoot em.


Smile

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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