What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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06-06-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(06-06-2017 05:50 AM)Jeanne Wrote:  I live on an isolated farm and am often home alone or with my daughter and her infant. I work about the farm outside or in my chicken houses or garden or in the tractor in a distant field....I do not have locked doors to give me five seconds of warning before an attacker is inside. I have been attacked by wild animals. There are wild dog packs that roam, a bobcat that passes through occasionally, nasty groundhogs and coyotes and rarely a rabid animal. There are strangers who come down our long, winding lane to see where it goes. The county road before our lane has a section of it where drug sales regularly take place. Our mail box is often used as a drop site. We have drunks that come back at night looking for a place to party in the woods. We have had a car abandoned just before our woods opens to the house/shed area and bashed in with axes by criminals on the move. That is when I started carrying a sidearm nearly 30 years ago.

If the police left immediately from town, it would take them at top speed 15 minutes to get here. Too late for me. Crime committed. Me and mine injured or dead. I can't outrun them. I can't fight them. I can shoot them or shoot at them so I can get to the house, which offers some protection and more guns and ammo and await the police.

Why wouldn't any reasonable person choose to wear a sidearm when their safety and the safety of others might depend upon the use of it?
In fairness, Jeanne, I would probably agree that in your situation with the circumstances, you are bang on to carry a gun if you wish. Hell, a lot of farmers in the UK have shotguns, again mainly for hunting but they have them. As long as your guns/ammunition are stored safely within the house, then that's fine. In the UK, you would need to apply for a license, which is then approved/denied by the police, depending on your use of the fire-arm, which is what should apply in your case I expect.

My issue is guns in public places/cities/towns or other built up areas where there is little to no need, basically because "other people have them". If some have legitimate reasons and are checked accordingly, then by all means have them.

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06-06-2017, 06:06 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
My extended family* has what they call "The Big Fifty", meaning the fifty family members with the most guns. Currently that totals 1900+ guns. They went on a buying spree when T.rump was elected in expectation that Obama would resist a transition of power and they'd have to fight to get Lord Orange Marmalade into the White House.

Yeah, that's how they think. Without guns they'd be just another pack of redneck morons, but the guantity of guns has put them on the radar of several agencies.
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06-06-2017, 06:06 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(06-06-2017 05:59 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  My issue is guns in public places/cities/towns or other built up areas where there is little to no need, basically because "other people have them". If some have legitimate reasons and are checked accordingly, then by all means have them.
But you know Starbucks is a liberal bastion, so going there armed is the only ... rational ... thing to do. Smartass
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06-06-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(06-06-2017 05:52 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  There are exceptions, of course, but carrying a gun increases the danger to everybody, user or adjacent people, including children and infants. This is not a hard concept.

Nearly everything in existence increases the danger to everybody. Trampolines send thousands to the hospital each year. Ladders do to, as we know from those public service announcements.

People still refuse to wear seat belts or safely secure their children.

Five gallon buckets drown toddlers, as do backyard pools and toilets.

Why have playgrounds removed much of the fun equipment we used to play on? Too many kids getting hurt.

Nobody should ride motorcycles or bicycles on roads where vehicles travel. Nobody should drive small cars.

I am more at risk of being killed by a drunk driver than of being shot by my own gun. Drunk driving is illegal, yet it hasn't stopped the drunks. Criminal activity is illegal, but it hasn't stopped the criminals, who own plenty of guns and use them on law-abidding citizens and other criminals.

Why do we need labels on fans telling people not to stick their fingers in the blades?

Stupidity kills and maims! But...we keep letting people do stupid things and buy trampolines for the kids. Stupidity should be outlawed and so should crime.

This is not a hard concept.

This gun issue is just a place for you to push our buttons and express your feelings of superiority. I think I am going to quit it now.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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06-06-2017, 06:19 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
A pile of false equivalences doesn't make for a reasoned argument.
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06-06-2017, 07:06 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
I am curious.

Does the 2nd ammendment apologist think that one should be able to shoot a law enforcement officer in self defense?

I have seen situations where people are shot because the officer thought they might be reaching for a putative gun.

Are Americans allowed to shoot rogue officers in order to save their lives?

Does an officer's fear for his life trump a normal citizen's right to self defense with a firearm?

Does the 2nd ammendment, other factors held even, increase the likelihood of police officers using deadly force to subdue suspects?

Put another way, does it increase the risk to citizens lives in a police encounter?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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06-06-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(06-06-2017 05:19 AM)Jeanne Wrote:  
(05-06-2017 01:49 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I never ride without a helmet. That's a reasonable precaution. Equivalent precautions for a homeowner would be to keep your doors locked, etc. If you also want to own guns, I have no problem with that. But to say that you "need" guns to be safe is over the top, in my opinion. I don't think you need them at all. I don't have any, and I am a person who takes reasonable precautions (like wearing a helmet when I ride my bike, avoiding highways, etc.).

I'm not anti-gun. But I am anti-fear mongering.

But...it should be obvious to any that I do need my gun on my person in order to protect myself....to be safe.

For those who have a carry permit, they obviously are in situations and environments where they need a firearm to protect themselves. When we read about people using whatever they have at hand to protect themselves, we should realize that a gun would be better. When we read about people using their sidearm to protect others or to diffuse a dangerous situation, we should realize that they are able to do so because of their gun.

That's the thing; you know when you need to wear a helmet is when you ride your bike. I never know when I may need my gun to protect myself, my family or my property...even if it is to simply discourage someone whose intent may be to do harm, that is, knowing I have a gun keeps them from their intent.

Your helmet analogy actually helps your argument in a different way than you intended. I ride my bike daily, racking up several thousand miles per year, and probably 30 or 40 thousand miles total in my life, and I can count on my fingers the number of times when wearing the helmet made a difference (i.e., the number of times I've fallen and hit my head). So I actually don't know when I need to wear it -- on the vast majority of my rides, I would have been fine without it. But I never know when one of those rare occasions is going to happen, so I wear it whenever I ride. This is exactly analogous to your rationale for carrying a gun.

So I can understand your reasoning. Nevertheless, I think you're being paranoid. I have never felt any need to carry a gun, and have never encountered a situation where I regretted not having one. And if everyone carried (the "wild west" model), I think we would have more gun violence, not less. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. In any event, I have no wish to take anyone's guns away, so need to fear me. I'm just someone with a different opinion.
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06-06-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
They're coming to take me guns away, Ho-ho, Hee-hee-haa-haa

Funny farm, indeed. The funny, paranoid farm. Yeehaw [Image: gun.gif]




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06-06-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(06-06-2017 05:50 AM)Jeanne Wrote:  
(06-06-2017 05:28 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  To be safe from what though? Other people with guns? That fact that so many other countries don't allow guns, and they have been gunless for years, should show the world you DONT need guns at all.

As others have said, if you WANT a gun, that's fine. My father had a gun, for hunting, but it was never in the house or in anyway loaded/in a dangerous position etc. But in no realm of the world, in any set up do you NEED a gun, unless it's to protect you from OTHERS WITH GUNS lol.

Guns have become the "nuclear deterrent" for US citizens I believe, you all have guns....because you all have guns lol.

I live on an isolated farm and am often home alone or with my daughter and her infant. I work about the farm outside or in my chicken houses or garden or in the tractor in a distant field....I do not have locked doors to give me five seconds of warning before an attacker is inside. I have been attacked by wild animals. There are wild dog packs that roam, a bobcat that passes through occasionally, nasty groundhogs and coyotes and rarely a rabid animal. There are strangers who come down our long, winding lane to see where it goes. The county road before our lane has a section of it where drug sales regularly take place. Our mail box is often used as a drop site. We have drunks that come back at night looking for a place to party in the woods. We have had a car abandoned just before our woods opens to the house/shed area and bashed in with axes by criminals on the move. That is when I started carrying a sidearm nearly 30 years ago.

If the police left immediately from town, it would take them at top speed 15 minutes to get here. Too late for me. Crime committed. Me and mine injured or dead. I can't outrun them. I can't fight them. I can shoot them or shoot at them so I can get to the house, which offers some protection and more guns and ammo and await the police.

Why wouldn't any reasonable person choose to wear a sidearm when their safety and the safety of others might depend upon the use of it?

OK, in that situation, maybe it does make sense for you to be armed. I retract my accusation of paranoia (while reserving the right to consider city-dwelling cowboys paranoid).

To respond to the original question, "What is your opinion of gunowners?", that's like asking what is my opinion of women, or Europeans, or any other large heterogenous group. It's impossible to have an opinion. My opinion of any specific gunowner will depend on other things about that person, which may or may not have anything to do with them being a gunowner.
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06-06-2017, 08:59 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
I live rural also. I think much of the time when people think of others having guns, they think of cities and people shooting at each other.

The US is a big place, and has a huge number of rural dwellers. While I consider my place a small wildlife refuge, there are times where I would shoot - such as a cougar as it would threaten me or mine. Something non-threatening, like the bear that hangs out here in the fall, would not be a target here.

Other humans can pose a serious threat to people living in remote areas. I am also prepared to shoot an intruder. Calling for help and waiting half an hour just isn't going to do it.

When I lived in cities, I did not own guns.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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