What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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28-01-2015, 08:07 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
Chas

So, you imply that far fewer lives are accidentally lost to guns than are saved, and provide no citation to back that up. When challenged, you provide 2 anecdotes, without even linking the source. Because that proves ..... what exactly?

You claim a number of accidental gun deaths per a year, also without s citation. I provide a number of details that challenge your numbers, including statistics from the CDC. You ignore all that, simply reiterate your original unsubstantiated claim, and still provide no citation or evidence of any kind.

Ok, I'm done. There is no point in attempting a discussion with someone not interested in discussing it and instead reverts to dogmatic positions.

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28-01-2015, 08:36 PM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2015 08:41 PM by Chas.)
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 08:07 PM)BnW Wrote:  Chas

So, you imply that far fewer lives are accidentally lost to guns than are saved,
and provide no citation to back that up.

I didn't imply that. I suggested we do a comparison.

Quote:When challenged, you provide 2 anecdotes, without even linking the source. Because that proves ..... what exactly?


No, I supplied 3 news items with attestations. It shows that guns are used to prevent crimes and save lives quite often.

Quote:You claim a number of accidental gun deaths per a year, also without s citation.

Do you even Google?

Anti-gun site: In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people.

pro-gun site: Gun Facts

Quote:I provide a number of details that challenge your numbers, including statistics from the CDC. You ignore all that, simply reiterate your original unsubstantiated claim, and still provide no citation or evidence of any kind.

You provided undifferentiated gun deaths. Not useful, potentially misleading. Was that your intent?

Quote:Ok, I'm done. There is no point in attempting a discussion with someone not interested in discussing it and instead reverts to dogmatic positions.

You have not even tried to have an informative discussion.

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28-01-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 07:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-01-2015 07:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  Ok, I couldn't wait for an answer and went looking myself. The first link I found after googling was this article on Slate.com: Guns Kill Children
<snip>
I don't understand how so many people die from poisoning but I assume it's just accidental. Let's ignore that for now. What's most amazing to me is the auto vs. gun death numbers. In 2010, where these numbers come from, there were 33,783 people killed in car accidents. In the same year, there were 32,351 people killed by guns (this is all gun deaths - accidental, murder, whatever).

Those are very damning numbers. It's not a good story at all.

Accidental gun deaths are 600 - 800 per year, not thousands.

Well if we go by that you can say that with only accidental gun deaths, then guns are more good than evil with 2.5 million being saved a year.
http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

HOWEVER, if we consider the death of guns not used for self defence, and how guns are used around the world, then they cause WAY more deaths and lives lost than saved. Honduras for example, pretty much all the murders are by gun, and they have 127.5 murders per 100,000 people. Let us also remember the places like germany, which have very strict gun laws, to the point you can say that you can't own a gun, which also has people who die from gun fire, who can't save themselves with a gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...death_rate

So for out species, guns do way more damage than good, however when it comes to the accidental deaths chas is right, as this sources says:

"In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people. From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. Over 1,300 victims of unintentional shootings for the period 2005–2010 were under 25 years of age"

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-i...tatistics/

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28-01-2015, 08:52 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
there's also the sinister swimming pool. Smile
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28-01-2015, 09:04 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(26-01-2015 05:31 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  This thread will have to be primarily for those in the US - as most countries gun laws are so strict as to prevent the "average Joe" from gun ownership.

What is your opinion of gun ownership?

.....

I am a gun owner. I grew up around guns, and have always considered them to be something that every person should have at least a basic working understanding of. I like guns as an investment. If properly purchased - you never lose money on one. I like to shoot, build guns, and provide meat for my table every year by taking at least a couple of whitetail deer. (I'll take roadkill as well. I'm not squeamish).

I have a concealed carry permit - and have carried a gun daily since 2001 - without an incident. I've held classes at my house, for people wanting their concealed carry license (mandatory in this state). Everyone in my immediate family (except my niece - she just came of age) has a carry permit as well. None of us have ever had a mishap with a firearm.

I marvel at those people who think "guns are evil". I simply don't understand how someone can be so anthropomorphic as to assign "evil" to a chunk of steel.


I'm all for owning guns. I grew up around it as well. I have one. My dad has several. But I'm also for regulation. It's a privilege, not a right. Like any other, if it's abused the privilege gets taken away.

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28-01-2015, 10:16 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
When we say "gun owners," just what are we talking about? Somebody that owns guns for the purpose of self-defense or to occasionally take it to the shooting range for fun or to decompress? Fine by me, I don't have any qualms with that.

Or are we talking about those lunatics that own 50 guns, give each their own name, and dedicated entire sections of the family photo album to them? If Big Bertha the 12-Gauge gets your rocks off when you take her out on a date to the firing range, then I'm not going to tell you to do otherwise, but I'll still think you're a fucking weirdo. And no, believe me, the LAST thing the government wants to do is get involved in the personal relationship between you and your dozens of penis extensions.

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28-01-2015, 11:00 PM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?


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29-01-2015, 12:49 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
If your allowed to carry guns around for protection then i dont see why you should not be allowed other items as well.

If i can be trusted to walk around for years with two handgrenades in my pocket, that at weekends i practise throwing, why should i not be allowed them as i would only use them in self defense.

Or big massive sharp machettes....

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29-01-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(28-01-2015 09:04 PM)The Drake Wrote:  
(26-01-2015 05:31 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  This thread will have to be primarily for those in the US - as most countries gun laws are so strict as to prevent the "average Joe" from gun ownership.

What is your opinion of gun ownership?

.....

I am a gun owner. I grew up around guns, and have always considered them to be something that every person should have at least a basic working understanding of. I like guns as an investment. If properly purchased - you never lose money on one. I like to shoot, build guns, and provide meat for my table every year by taking at least a couple of whitetail deer. (I'll take roadkill as well. I'm not squeamish).

I have a concealed carry permit - and have carried a gun daily since 2001 - without an incident. I've held classes at my house, for people wanting their concealed carry license (mandatory in this state). Everyone in my immediate family (except my niece - she just came of age) has a carry permit as well. None of us have ever had a mishap with a firearm.

I marvel at those people who think "guns are evil". I simply don't understand how someone can be so anthropomorphic as to assign "evil" to a chunk of steel.


I'm all for owning guns. I grew up around it as well. I have one. My dad has several. But I'm also for regulation. It's a privilege, not a right. Like any other, if it's abused the privilege gets taken away.

In fact - it's a right - not a privilege.

At least in the USA where our Constitution says we do (under 2nd Amendment, which was recently backed up by the Supreme Court)

In some other countries - privileges are meted out to those who grovel for them.

And no rights can be taken away without due process of law. (adjudicated by a court)

.......................................

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29-01-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(29-01-2015 12:49 AM)bemore Wrote:  If your allowed to carry guns around for protection then i dont see why you should not be allowed other items as well.

If i can be trusted to walk around for years with two handgrenades in my pocket, that at weekends i practise throwing, why should i not be allowed them as i would only use them in self defense.

Or big massive sharp machettes....


I'd like to see the technique involved using a grenade for self defense - in an elevator.....

And oddly enough -- My concealed pistol license does NOT allow me to carry a knife that's over the length (3.4 inch) that's allowed by state law.

But - through a convoluted legislature -- I am allowed to carry my Kel-Tec SU-16C -- a folding piston operated semi-auto rifle, chambered in .223 which uses AR-15 magazines. It will fire from folded position. State law used to require it to be registered as a pistol as it's overall length folded was under 30 inches. They've since changed the law to reflect federal law- so length went down to 26 inches. But, as mine was registered when required, it's grandfathered.

.......................................

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