What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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07-06-2017, 09:08 AM
What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 07:10 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I don't agree with everything Gawdzilla has said in this thread, and I occasionally find his attitude alarming, but let's be fair -- he has never admitted to being a "murderer", either in the quoted statement or elsewhere. He has admitted to killing, in a military context. That's not (necessarily) the same thing as murder. War is all about killing. If you're going to engage in war, you had better be good at killing.

Whether or not war is justifiable (IMHO, sometimes it is) is another topic.

I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing. That said, people can change their views on things. But I think KUSA was pointing out the irony. I do think the term "murderer" was a bit harsh though to say to someone who was protecting our country. Just my opinion.


Thank you. Well said!
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07-06-2017, 09:11 AM
What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 08:58 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing.

There's a world of difference between a trained soldier, under orders and potentially in combat, using a weapon to defend his/herself or platoon, and an untrained civilian carrying around a loaded weapon in one's home or on a street because they suffer from the delusion that carrying a weapon makes them safer.


There's a bit of truth and a bunch of straw / bullshit in your statement.
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07-06-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 07:10 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I don't agree with everything Gawdzilla has said in this thread, and I occasionally find his attitude alarming, but let's be fair -- he has never admitted to being a "murderer", either in the quoted statement or elsewhere. He has admitted to killing, in a military context. That's not (necessarily) the same thing as murder. War is all about killing. If you're going to engage in war, you had better be good at killing.

Whether or not war is justifiable (IMHO, sometimes it is) is another topic.

I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing. That said, people can change their views on things. But I think KUSA was pointing out the irony.

I concede that point, but I think Gawdzilla, KUSA, and Anjele have all gone beyond the point of civilized discourse in this thread. They have allowed things to get personal. I'm just trying to throw a little water on the fire.
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07-06-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:03 AM)jennybee Wrote:  So in Jeanne's example--her living on a remote farm with her daughter and baby granddaughter, in an area with various criminal activity--it would be better for her not to have a gun even if she knows how to use it? She's got a war going on right in her backyard.

I haven't seen Jeanne mention her specific situation - there are 51 pages of responses here! - so I can't speak to it directly.

But it's been proven, time after time after time, that the abundance of firearms leads to deaths by firearms, either accidental or otherwise, and sadly, young children are often the victims. The whole "I carry for personal safety" argument is a red herring. It always has been; it saddens me that otherwise-thoughtful people still use it.

As atheists, we're into evidence. And that's what the evidence shows.
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07-06-2017, 09:22 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing. That said, people can change their views on things. But I think KUSA was pointing out the irony.

I concede that point, but I think Gawdzilla, KUSA, and Anjele have all gone beyond the point of civilized discourse in this thread. They have allowed things to get personal. I'm just trying to throw a little water on the fire.
I have them on ignore now, so I'm trying to play nice.
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07-06-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:11 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:58 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  There's a world of difference between a trained soldier, under orders and potentially in combat, using a weapon to defend his/herself or platoon, and an untrained civilian carrying around a loaded weapon in one's home or on a street because they suffer from the delusion that carrying a weapon makes them safer.


There's a bit of truth and a bunch of straw / bullshit in your statement.

If you do not know the difference between a trained soldier and an untrained civilian, then sorry, I can't help you.

*edit to add*

Feel free to repond if you wish, KUSA (or others). I'm done with this thread; nobody is changing their minds here, regardless of the facts presented. I guess it's a bit like religion: few will change their mind based on facts alone (see The Backfire Effect https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...acts-fail/ ) and will only come to reason in their own time, in their own way.
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07-06-2017, 09:25 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:24 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:11 AM)KUSA Wrote:  There's a bit of truth and a bunch of straw / bullshit in your statement.

If you do not know the difference between a trained soldier and an untrained civilian, then sorry, I can't help you.

That's where the gunner's fantasy of saving the US from The Bad Guys falls down. Thumbsup
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07-06-2017, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2017 09:52 AM by jennybee.)
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing. That said, people can change their views on things. But I think KUSA was pointing out the irony.

I concede that point, but I think Gawdzilla, KUSA, and Anjele have all gone beyond the point of civilized discourse in this thread. They have allowed things to get personal. I'm just trying to throw a little water on the fire.

I think people tend to be very strong one way or the other over this issue (at least on this forum) and things can get heated as a result. It happens *shrugs*

For myself, I prefer to live zen, I prefer no need for guns whatsoever. A gunless world we're we could all live together holding hands would be awesome. So I *completely* understand where the "no guns" people are coming from. However, the reality is, we don't live in a Kumbaya world and as such, I think it's important to be proactive about your personal safety.

Like Jeanne mentioned in her post, if she called the police, due to the remoteness of her location, it would take them much too long to get to her in order for them to provide any kind of support. She also comes in contact with various wild animals on her property and there has been criminal activity in her area. To me--totally reasonable for her to have a gun.

For me, I hike a lot by myself. I come across men on the trail once in awhile. One time I came across a group of guys drinking. And a few of them made comments toward me in a sexual way and it was quite scary. I've had my breasts and ass grabbed out in public by random dudes, so really nothing stopping some asshole from doing something to me out on a remote trail. I take Krav Maga and carry pepper spray, bear spray, and a knife, but me against 6 guys in the wilderness? Really??

I feel safer with a gun. Does that mean I'm invincible-no. But at least I feel it levels the playing field a bit and makes me feel safer to do the activities I enjoy.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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07-06-2017, 09:35 AM
What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think KUSA's point was you can't exactly be sitting on a zen lotus leaf telling others they are wrong for protecting themselves with a firearm, when you yourself have done the same thing. That said, people can change their views on things. But I think KUSA was pointing out the irony.

I concede that point, but I think Gawdzilla, KUSA, and Anjele have all gone beyond the point of civilized discourse in this thread. They have allowed things to get personal. I'm just trying to throw a little water on the fire.


Hold on captain. Gawdpsycho made statements that sounded very much like a threat to me and Anjele. Then he asked her to kill herself.

There is something wrong with the fucker.
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07-06-2017, 09:45 AM
What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(07-06-2017 09:32 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I concede that point, but I think Gawdzilla, KUSA, and Anjele have all gone beyond the point of civilized discourse in this thread. They have allowed things to get personal. I'm just trying to throw a little water on the fire.

I think people tend to be very strong one way or the other over this issue (at least on this forum) and things can get heated as a result. It happens *shrugs*

For myself, I prefer to live zen, I prefer no need for guns whatsoever. A gunless world we're we could all live together holding hands would be awesome. So I *completely* understand where the "no guns" people are coming from. However, the reality is, we don't live in a Kumbaya world and as such, I think it's important to be proactive about your personal safety.

Like Jeanne mentioned in her post, if she called the police, due to the remoteness of her location, it would take them much too long to get to her in order for them to provide any kind of support. She also comes in contact with various wild animals on her property and there has been criminal activity in her area. To me--totally reasonable for her to have a gun.

For me, I hike a lot by myself. I come across men on the trail once in awhile. One time I came across a group of guys drinking. And a few of them made comments toward me in a sexual way and it was quite scary. I've had my breasts and ass grabbed out in public by random dudes, so really nothing stopping some asshole from doing something to me out on a remote trail. I take Krav Maga and carry pepper spray and a knife, but me against 6 guys in the wilderness? Really??

I feel safer with a gun. Does that mean I'm invincible-no. But at least I feel it levels the playing field a bit and makes me feel safer to do the activities I enjoy.


You have a gift for wording things.
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