What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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15-06-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(14-06-2017 05:23 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've pointed this out before, but I've yet to see a mass shooting/active shooter/terrorist attack anywhere people are known to be armed. I dislike the argument that those things happen in gun free zones, because that's not entirely accurate. But in places where people are KNOWN to be carrying or the type of person that frequents a certain location most likely will be carrying, the threat of mass shooting/active shooter/terrorist attack is effectively zero (NRA Convention, Bass Pro Shops, Cabela's, gun shows, etc).

You must have missed the "ballfield attack" just yesterday. There were Capitol Police present who returned fire, thereby limiting the damage the shooter could do. In general, this lends support to your argument, but it defeats the claim that wackos always choose soft targets.
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15-06-2017, 07:27 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:04 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 05:41 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Nothing like using statistical blips to prove your point.....

Before the ban they had on average less than 360 firearm homicides per year.

After the ban less than 300.

Now in a country of 24 million, that's a pretty insignificant percentile.

It appears the people in Australia are simply not as prone to killing each other.

Getting rid of the guns didn't really change anything.

That small blip would translate to about 5,000 less gun fatalities in a US context(with annual gun deaths in the 30,000 range).

Not really. He was referring to firearm homicide in Australia. The 30,000 figure you site is for all gun deaths in America, including suicide (about 2/3 of all gun deaths) and justified shootings. The number is closer to 10,000 homicides per year.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:25 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 05:23 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've pointed this out before, but I've yet to see a mass shooting/active shooter/terrorist attack anywhere people are known to be armed. I dislike the argument that those things happen in gun free zones, because that's not entirely accurate. But in places where people are KNOWN to be carrying or the type of person that frequents a certain location most likely will be carrying, the threat of mass shooting/active shooter/terrorist attack is effectively zero (NRA Convention, Bass Pro Shops, Cabela's, gun shows, etc).

You must have missed the "ballfield attack" just yesterday. There were Capitol Police present who returned fire, thereby limiting the damage the shooter could do. In general, this lends support to your argument, but it defeats the claim that wackos always choose soft targets.

We need more info to be sure. A few things to take into consideration: Were the capital police in uniform? Did the shooter want to die, i.e. suicide by cop?

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 07:38 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(14-06-2017 04:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 04:19 PM)julep Wrote:  I'm not sure how unlikely it is that most people won't face hostile situations. It probably varies based on location and (possibly?) gender. When I was a single woman, living by myself in Chicago--without a car, so I went everywhere by foot, bike, or public transportation--I had a stalker who came after me with a gun, and I had a crazy guy try to throw me into traffic, among other things. I taught aerobics at the Cabrini Green YMCA and I rode the bus to get there (Cabrini Green was considered to be a fairly dangerous area).

However, I never felt that my having a gun would have been helpful in those situations. Fast feet and the ability to yell loudly worked for me. I've never owned or carried a gun. While I've been very scared sometimes, I've never felt the pervasive dread that requires I be armed everywhere I go. It must be awful to be so fearful all the time.

A gun probably would not be much use to you, as a violin wouldn't be of much use to me...

For the same reason - lack of training.

However, if you were to get one and train, it'd be a different story.

I should've spent a bunch of extra money and time to achieve the same outcome? Still alive and doing fine?
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15-06-2017, 07:43 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:30 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 07:25 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You must have missed the "ballfield attack" just yesterday. There were Capitol Police present who returned fire, thereby limiting the damage the shooter could do. In general, this lends support to your argument, but it defeats the claim that wackos always choose soft targets.

We need more info to be sure. A few things to take into consideration: Were the capital police in uniform? Did the shooter want to die, i.e. suicide by cop?

Ever been to the White House? There guys standing around with long guns sort of covered by the FAG bags. (Fast Action Gun) Lots of guns in view if you look.
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15-06-2017, 08:36 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:22 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I honestly don't know the answer to this -- just putting the thought out there -- but what if you were shooting, not at fixed targets on a shooting range, but at real live moving people who were shooting back at you -- and if you hit them, you're not just hitting a target, you're killing someone.

No one knows the answer to that question until they are put in that situation. This includes police officers.

Quote:Still think you would outshoot the cops?

There are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking people that train more than most police officers are more likely to shoot better than most police officers.

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15-06-2017, 08:37 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:43 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 07:30 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  We need more info to be sure. A few things to take into consideration: Were the capital police in uniform? Did the shooter want to die, i.e. suicide by cop?

Ever been to the White House? There guys standing around with long guns sort of covered by the FAG bags. (Fast Action Gun) Lots of guns in view if you look.

The Capital Police are not at the white house. The capital police protect congress. My point was that they don't (usually) wear uniforms when on protective details. They will wear a suit, or sometimes even similar clothing to who they are protecting. So the shooter might have thought there were no police present.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 08:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 07:43 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Ever been to the White House? There guys standing around with long guns sort of covered by the FAG bags. (Fast Action Gun) Lots of guns in view if you look.

The Capital Police are not at the white house. The capital police protect congress. My point was that they don't (usually) wear uniforms when on protective details. They will wear a suit, or sometimes even similar clothing to who they are protecting. So the shooter might have thought there were no police present.

My point was that anybody casually observing the situation would see people with long guns there. The exact unit that is covering a particular area or group doesn't obliviate this.
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15-06-2017, 09:13 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 08:41 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 08:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The Capital Police are not at the white house. The capital police protect congress. My point was that they don't (usually) wear uniforms when on protective details. They will wear a suit, or sometimes even similar clothing to who they are protecting. So the shooter might have thought there were no police present.

My point was that anybody casually observing the situation would see people with long guns there. The exact unit that is covering a particular area or group doesn't obliviate this.

There were no long guns. Didn't you hear the GOP representative say it was pistols against a rifle? The officers were most likely in plain clothes with a concealed 9mm pistol.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:13 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 08:41 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  My point was that anybody casually observing the situation would see people with long guns there. The exact unit that is covering a particular area or group doesn't obliviate this.

There were no long guns. Didn't you hear the GOP representative say it was pistols against a rifle? The officers were most likely in plain clothes with a concealed 9mm pistol.
I didn't say long guns were used at that spot, only that you can see long guns on the Mall.

And one of them also said it was a "heavy caliber rifle." Experts abound.
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