What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
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15-06-2017, 09:27 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:22 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 03:41 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Ever shot with cops??????


I'm betting not.


Your fairy tale about "constant training" for law enforcement is in direct violation of the laws of fiscal supply, political priorities, and reality in general.....

The merry band of gun nuts I shoot with almost always outshoot our friends in law enforcement....

That's OK though, we still encourage them to excel....

I honestly don't know the answer to this -- just putting the thought out there -- but what if you were shooting, not at fixed targets on a shooting range, but at real live moving people who were shooting back at you -- and if you hit them, you're not just hitting a target, you're killing someone. Still think you would outshoot the cops?

Yup.

They have no more experience in such matters than most civilians.

In the usual circles that show up here - only two of the guys have ever killed anyone ( that I'm aware of). They were both Nam vets.

We've got one Gulf War vet - but he says he was happily in the rear offloading equipment and had no desire to see combat.

None of the LEOs have fired their weapon on duty - which is the norm in most places.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-06-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:23 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 09:13 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  There were no long guns. Didn't you hear the GOP representative say it was pistols against a rifle? The officers were most likely in plain clothes with a concealed 9mm pistol.
I didn't say long guns were used at that spot, only that you can see long guns on the Mall.

And one of them also said it was a "heavy caliber rifle." Experts abound.

I'm very confused where you are going with this. The bad guy had a rifle. The officers had pistols. The conversation we were having was about soft targets. The ballpark was a soft target since no police or guns were visible. The officers were most likely in plain clothes with concealed handguns. Or sitting in an unmarked vehicle nearby. The shooter would have thought it was going to be easy.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 09:42 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 09:23 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I didn't say long guns were used at that spot, only that you can see long guns on the Mall.

And one of them also said it was a "heavy caliber rifle." Experts abound.

I'm very confused where you are going with this. The bad guy had a rifle. The officers had pistols. The conversation we were having was about soft targets. The ballpark was a soft target since no police or guns were visible. The officers were most likely in plain clothes with concealed handguns. Or sitting in an unmarked vehicle nearby. The shooter would have thought it was going to be easy.
Yahbutt.....

The shooter was a ( D ), so he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn..... From the inside..



Tongue

J/k

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-06-2017, 09:45 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 09:23 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I didn't say long guns were used at that spot, only that you can see long guns on the Mall.

And one of them also said it was a "heavy caliber rifle." Experts abound.

I'm very confused where you are going with this. The bad guy had a rifle. The officers had pistols. The conversation we were having was about soft targets. The ballpark was a soft target since no police or guns were visible. The officers were most likely in plain clothes with concealed handguns. Or sitting in an unmarked vehicle nearby. The shooter would have thought it was going to be easy.
My point is you can't walk very far at the Mall without seeing armed people. My wife spotted six in the short walk we took. She has had no prior experience in this area.
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15-06-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:45 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 09:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm very confused where you are going with this. The bad guy had a rifle. The officers had pistols. The conversation we were having was about soft targets. The ballpark was a soft target since no police or guns were visible. The officers were most likely in plain clothes with concealed handguns. Or sitting in an unmarked vehicle nearby. The shooter would have thought it was going to be easy.
My point is you can't walk very far at the Mall without seeing armed people. My wife spotted six in the short walk we took. She has had no prior experience in this area.

They weren't practicing on the mall. They were out in town at a ball field. They brought two undercover officers. No visible police presence. Soft target.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-06-2017, 09:59 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 07:27 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 07:04 AM)tomilay Wrote:  That small blip would translate to about 5,000 less gun fatalities in a US context(with annual gun deaths in the 30,000 range).

Not really. He was referring to firearm homicide in Australia. The 30,000 figure you site is for all gun deaths in America, including suicide (about 2/3 of all gun deaths) and justified shootings. The number is closer to 10,000 homicides per year.

Suppose you are right. That would translate to 1,500 less gun deaths in America. If a policy can reduce the gun death rate by 1, it's worth it.

That aside, the 300 firearm homicide figure for Australia cited by OB must be very old. Circa 2002 the total number of all types of gun deaths in Australia is 292 and trending downwards.

That 2002 number itself falls on a new trend-line that is the result of a steep drop from 1996 or thereabouts. I am not sure what causes that sudden drop.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compar...gun_deaths

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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15-06-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 09:51 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-06-2017 09:45 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  My point is you can't walk very far at the Mall without seeing armed people. My wife spotted six in the short walk we took. She has had no prior experience in this area.

They weren't practicing on the mall. They were out in town at a ball field. They brought two undercover officers. No visible police presence. Soft target.

Okay, I miss that part. Reading with one eye is iffy at best. I apologize for any confusion.
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15-06-2017, 10:21 AM
What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
One of my friends used to host shooting competitions about a decade ago. He would also have training classes in between comps. This is what I observed time after time.

Most military personnel did fairly well. Some were actually awesome.

Civilian gun enthusiasts did as well or better than the military.

Beginner civilians sucked but we taught them the skills they needed.

Law enforcement 9 times out of 10 sucked. The only LEOs that were good were the ones that practiced on their own time (usually with us civilians). The others just didn't know the fundamentals of how to hit a target. They knew how the firearm worked but putting lead on target was not happening.

Here's the thing. If you are a good target shooter you may do well in an actual situation . You might shit yourself too.

If you can't hit a target and you are in a situation then you won't do well. Even if you hold up mentally, you still can't put the bullet where it needs to be.

Just my 2 cents.
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15-06-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
Weeding out the panicky FNGs from the ones we could count on required some rather evil scenarios. They were also a great deal of fun. Last round's victims were always the most enthusiastic.
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15-06-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: What Is Your Opinion Of Gunowners?
(15-06-2017 10:21 AM)KUSA Wrote:  One of my friends used to host shooting competitions about a decade ago. He would also have training classes in between comps. This is what I observed time after time.

Most military personnel did fairly well. Some were actually awesome.

Civilian gun enthusiasts did as well or better than the military.

Beginner civilians sucked but we taught them the skills they needed.

Law enforcement 9 times out of 10 sucked. The only LEOs that were good were the ones that practiced on their own time (usually with us civilians). The others just didn't know the fundamentals of how to hit a target. They knew how the firearm worked but putting lead on target was not happening.

Here's the thing. If you are a good target shooter you may do well in an actual situation . You might shit yourself too.

If you can't hit a target and you are in a situation then you won't do well. Even if you hold up mentally, you still can't put the bullet where it needs to be.

Just my 2 cents.

Good points KUSA, I have no real dog in this fight as you know but given Mr Zillas posts recently I'm kinda glad he's put me on ignore, having said that I do think his predilection to place folks on ignore is somewhat telling, I mean if your position is so strong and your evidence so overwhelming why would you feel threatened by a Brit from a small village in the south of England ?
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