What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
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13-12-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(13-12-2016 05:29 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  wow you seem really triggered m8.

ok there buddy
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14-12-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Is it possible for you to try and describe what it feels like to be a man?
No, it's not. As I said, there's no way I could describe anything that would make sense to someone else - i.e., where they would have a "ah, now I get it" reaction. But I do feel like a man. Even while not fitting a stereotypical man (at least in the American culture) in some ways - I'm not heavily into sports, I'm a lot more emotional than the average guy (can even tear up over a happy moment in a cartoon! Rolleyes ), don't like all the machismo - I still definitely feel like a man and conversely there is no way I could see myself as a woman. (There's nothing wrong with being a woman, but isn't who I am.)

(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I find it interesting that you say you know what it feels like to be a man because I have no idea, even though I am a man.
That's interesting and I can't relate. It's hard for me to imagine how that is true, but then maybe that represents yet another point on the continuum.

(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If, let's say, I had a woman's brain in a man's body, then how would this manifest? How would I discover that I am a woman rather than a man? What would be my clues (rather than some scientific scan of my brain)

I mean, if the evidence were the brain scan and if I had a brain scan and they told me I actually had a woman's brain, would that impact me? Would I then start wearing dresses, watching soap operas, and get pissed off when I take showers and look down. I'm sure the compelling evidence isn't the brain scan, that is just supporting evidence, but what is that makes a person think that they are a man or woman?
I think you would just know, but I have no idea how. But then again since you don't know what it feels like to be a man, maybe you wouldn't know and it depends on where you are on the continuum. All good questions.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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14-12-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
Well, my daughter doesn't wear dresses or make-up very often. After she came out with what she'd been hiding since childhood is was a huge relief and that's a major part of what causes so much distress. Just getting it out in the open is necessary. She's still interested in computers and science though, which are traditionally male interests.


She told me recently that when she was little, like 7 or 8, that she didn't know what was wrong with herself but she knew it was something. When she was 10 she was worried about death and being killed and I had to sit up with her at night so she'd go to sleep. She'd have terrible nightmares. It was around 11 that she knew something was up and her brain was weird. She kept telling me that her brain isn't right. She'd get terrible headaches.

A few years later she told me that when she was a teenager she studied male superheroes and tried to learn how they walked and moved and she'd practice walking and moving in her room every evening for hours so she'd look, act and think more masculine and maybe that way she wouldn't get beat up and shoved around at school so much.

She was constantly harassed at school from about 12 years onward and I couldn't understand why. It got so bad that some of her friends got together and went to the school front office and complained about it but the school never notified me. Assholes. Her friends told me though and I asked her about it but she wouldn't tell me what was wrong so. She just sort of shrugged her shoulders and I stupidly figured it was the usual teenage boy thing of being noncommunicative.

My husband and I knew something was wrong with her though and we were about to take her in for a MRI brain scan for the headaches when she finally told us.

Until you raise someone who is transgender it's really easy to dismiss it but it's a very real thing. Now she's happy and healthy and at ease with herself but she doesn't dress in a super feminine way. She dresses the way she feels, in casual somewhat feminine clothes but nothing flouncy or over the top. Oh, and two weeks after she started hormone therapy her headaches stopped.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-12-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(14-12-2016 10:55 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Well, my daughter doesn't wear dresses or make-up very often. After she came out with what she'd been hiding since childhood is was a huge relief and that's a major part of what causes so much distress. Just getting it out in the open is necessary. She's still interested in computers and science though, which are traditionally male interests.


She told me recently that when she was little, like 7 or 8, that she didn't know what was wrong with herself but she knew it was something. When she was 10 she was worried about death and being killed and I had to sit up with her at night so she'd go to sleep. She'd have terrible nightmares. It was around 11 that she knew something was up and her brain was weird. She kept telling me that her brain isn't right. She'd get terrible headaches.

A few years later she told me that when she was a teenager she studied male superheroes and tried to learn how they walked and moved and she'd practice walking and moving in her room every evening for hours so she'd look, act and think more masculine and maybe that way she wouldn't get beat up and shoved around at school so much.

She was constantly harassed at school from about 12 years onward and I couldn't understand why. It got so bad that some of her friends got together and went to the school front office and complained about it but the school never notified me. Assholes. Her friends told me though and I asked her about it but she wouldn't tell me what was wrong so. She just sort of shrugged her shoulders and I stupidly figured it was the usual teenage boy thing of being noncommunicative.

My husband and I knew something was wrong with her though and we were about to take her in for a MRI brain scan for the headaches when she finally told us.

Until you raise someone who is transgender it's really easy to dismiss it but it's a very real thing. Now she's happy and healthy and at ease with herself but she doesn't dress in a super feminine way. She dresses the way she feels, in casual somewhat feminine clothes but nothing flouncy or over the top. Oh, and two weeks after she started hormone therapy her headaches stopped.

Good parenting.
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14-12-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(14-12-2016 10:55 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Well, my daughter doesn't wear dresses or make-up very often. After she came out with what she'd been hiding since childhood is was a huge relief and that's a major part of what causes so much distress. Just getting it out in the open is necessary. She's still interested in computers and science though, which are traditionally male interests.


She told me recently that when she was little, like 7 or 8, that she didn't know what was wrong with herself but she knew it was something. When she was 10 she was worried about death and being killed and I had to sit up with her at night so she'd go to sleep. She'd have terrible nightmares. It was around 11 that she knew something was up and her brain was weird. She kept telling me that her brain isn't right. She'd get terrible headaches.

A few years later she told me that when she was a teenager she studied male superheroes and tried to learn how they walked and moved and she'd practice walking and moving in her room every evening for hours so she'd look, act and think more masculine and maybe that way she wouldn't get beat up and shoved around at school so much.

She was constantly harassed at school from about 12 years onward and I couldn't understand why. It got so bad that some of her friends got together and went to the school front office and complained about it but the school never notified me. Assholes. Her friends told me though and I asked her about it but she wouldn't tell me what was wrong so. She just sort of shrugged her shoulders and I stupidly figured it was the usual teenage boy thing of being noncommunicative.

My husband and I knew something was wrong with her though and we were about to take her in for a MRI brain scan for the headaches when she finally told us.

Until you raise someone who is transgender it's really easy to dismiss it but it's a very real thing. Now she's happy and healthy and at ease with herself but she doesn't dress in a super feminine way. She dresses the way she feels, in casual somewhat feminine clothes but nothing flouncy or over the top. Oh, and two weeks after she started hormone therapy her headaches stopped.

Your daughter is so lucky to have you. *hugs*

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"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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14-12-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(14-12-2016 09:11 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Is it possible for you to try and describe what it feels like to be a man?
No, it's not. As I said, there's no way I could describe anything that would make sense to someone else - i.e., where they would have a "ah, now I get it" reaction. But I do feel like a man. Even while not fitting a stereotypical man (at least in the American culture) in some ways - I'm not heavily into sports, I'm a lot more emotional than the average guy (can even tear up over a happy moment in a cartoon! Rolleyes ), don't like all the machismo - I still definitely feel like a man and conversely there is no way I could see myself as a woman. (There's nothing wrong with being a woman, but isn't who I am.)

(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I find it interesting that you say you know what it feels like to be a man because I have no idea, even though I am a man.
That's interesting and I can't relate. It's hard for me to imagine how that is true, but then maybe that represents yet another point on the continuum.

(13-12-2016 05:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If, let's say, I had a woman's brain in a man's body, then how would this manifest? How would I discover that I am a woman rather than a man? What would be my clues (rather than some scientific scan of my brain)

I mean, if the evidence were the brain scan and if I had a brain scan and they told me I actually had a woman's brain, would that impact me? Would I then start wearing dresses, watching soap operas, and get pissed off when I take showers and look down. I'm sure the compelling evidence isn't the brain scan, that is just supporting evidence, but what is that makes a person think that they are a man or woman?
I think you would just know, but I have no idea how. But then again since you don't know what it feels like to be a man, maybe you wouldn't know and it depends on where you are on the continuum. All good questions.

Nah, I think you're full of shit.
I think you want to think you "feel like a man". You were born male. You live in the States so you were brought up in this culture we have where it's all boys = blue, girls = pink and boys liking pink is bad and girls liking blue is bad. Even if your parents weren't like that, which I'd guess they probably were being Catholic and all, society is like that and it certainly was to a greater extent 10-20-30+ years ago.

I'm not saying you're suppressing some hidden desire to paint everything in your house pink. I'm just saying that on some level you like the idea you're a male so what I think you think is feeling male is you.. embracing it.

I think this is what transgender is. I think it's more like how I really want money.
I wanna be filthy rich. It's just who I am. It's what I want.
I think transgender is the same way but with wanting to be the opposite sex. I don't think it's a "feeling" and I don't think there's a "male" feeling or a "female" feeling.

And there's nothing wrong with that of course. Just like how some people have no desire to be filthy rich, I have no desire to turn my gentlemen sausage inside out.

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15-12-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(14-12-2016 04:43 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Nah, I think you're full of shit.
I think you want to think you "feel like a man". You were born male. You live in the States so you were brought up in this culture we have where it's all boys = blue, girls = pink and boys liking pink is bad and girls liking blue is bad. Even if your parents weren't like that, which I'd guess they probably were being Catholic and all, society is like that and it certainly was to a greater extent 10-20-30+ years ago.

I'm not saying you're suppressing some hidden desire to paint everything in your house pink. I'm just saying that on some level you like the idea you're a male so what I think you think is feeling male is you.. embracing it.

I think this is what transgender is. I think it's more like how I really want money.
I wanna be filthy rich. It's just who I am. It's what I want.
I think transgender is the same way but with wanting to be the opposite sex. I don't think it's a "feeling" and I don't think there's a "male" feeling or a "female" feeling.

And there's nothing wrong with that of course. Just like how some people have no desire to be filthy rich, I have no desire to turn my gentlemen sausage inside out.

I think "feeling" or "feel" is really the wrong word (and I know, I used it first). It's more like a perception. And I certainly can't say for sure where that perception comes from. It certainly could be ingrained in me from society. But I think the clearest sign that it isn't is actually transgender people. They too would get the same societal influences and messages, but something in them is stronger than those because their gender doesn't conform. And since there are the brain studies that indicate transgender is biological, why would non-trans male and female be any different? Consider Yeah and want definitely has nothing to do with it.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-12-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
Edit.
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16-12-2016, 06:55 AM
RE: What Is Your Viewpoint on Gender and Gender Identity?
(11-12-2016 05:29 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  There are 3 genders: male, female, and attack helicopter.

That was actually quite witty Gilgamesh made me chuckle,
Important to let people define themselves have respect for their conclusions and just treat them as a normal human being because that's exactly what they are.
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