What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
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25-09-2015, 08:28 PM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
If driverless cars become a thing, as in a big thing, I'm sure that there will be laws in place and so I wont have a choice of "my life or theirs" because the government will make that choice for me and require that all cars be programmed to take the lesser of 2 evils (aka, I'm going off a cliff). Though hopefully the on-board camera sends their data to the cops and they get done for manslaughter (or paraded as a hero, however you wanna look at it).

It's all irrelevant anyway because:

1) I ride motorbikes and I enjoy doing it so I don't wanna someone else to ride it for me.

2) It wont become a major thing in my life time.

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25-09-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
They'd probably make all road crossing over or underground anyway. Plus hopefully by that stage we shall have a more improved mode of transport than motor cars.

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26-09-2015, 12:29 AM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
(25-09-2015 05:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You could be driving and suddenly, "out of no where" pops 4 people running into your path. You hit the brakes but the car just isn't going to stop in time. Do you plow into the group or swerve and crash into a wall at 60 mph or drive off a cliff?

You may never have to face this situation. But a situation you may very soon have to face is should you buy the Driverless Ford, which is programmed to favor your life or the Driverless Chevy....which is programmed to favor the lives of the pedestrians?
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26-09-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
(25-09-2015 06:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 05:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You could be driving and suddenly, "out of no where" pops 4 people running into your path. You hit the brakes but the car just isn't going to stop in time. Do you plow into the group or swerve and crash into a wall at 60 mph or drive off a cliff?
...

Tell me more about the four people.

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29-09-2015, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2015 10:08 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
It's likely that the cars we buy will all be operating under some kind of industry standard principles. My guess is that the first generation will operate to one simple rule:
1. Reach a safe state as quickly as possible, that is to lock the steering in its current direction and hit the brakes hard, potentially keeping a lookout to the rear for tailgating and braking less hard if it thinks a collision from behind will be triggered by hard braking. Never hit the accelerator.

The current steering position is already presumably in a relatively safe direction (ie pointed towards the vehicle's current lane of traffic, not into a building somewhere) so is a safe simple bet for optimum steering wheel position. Hitting the brakes hard but not too hard is also simple. Safety systems have to be simple, otherwise there are always edge cases or malfunctions that we want to avoid. The safest system often isn't actually the one that makes the optimally safe decision, but rather is the one that reaches a safe state quickly and predictably (ie reaches a stopped state quickly and predictably in the case of vehicles).

I think a second generation that controls steering in an accident will come out once the first generation's strengths and weaknesses are measured in practice. I think the second generation will judge obstacles as soft or hard, and will avoid collision with hard obstacles over collisions with soft obstacles. That is,
2. Lock the steering into a path that minimises impact with obstacles, and minimises speed of such impacts. Prioritise avoidance of hard objects such as buildings over soft objects such as people, but be ready to impact a building at very low speed to avoid a high speed soft collision.

It may be that an ACAS-like system could eventually be used to communicate between vehicles to allow them to coordinate to avoid a collision or minimise its impact but I don't think we'll see that until driverless vehicles have been the standard vehicle for at least fifteen years. In the short term I would expect to see each vehicle operating on its own best judgement as to how the others vehicles will behave and how it can best approach a safe state.

I think these safety systems will consistently be developed with the main metric in mind being "how much damage will this vehicle take" rather than "how many pedestrians will I hit". I don't think car buyers will have a choice in how their collision harm minimisation system works, and I don't think different vendors will have sufficiently different systems for a customer to base purchasing decisions on.

These are just my guesses, but I've worked with a lot of safety systems and with a lot of safety engineers in my own field... so while I'm open to being corrected I'm pretty sure the philosophical questions in this thread will not impact the design of driverless vehicles, no matter how much people might want to think about such things and propose them to vehicle manufacturers. I think the vehicles themselves will do the thing that is simple to understand: Look after themselves first, and let those around them do the same.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-10-2015, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2015 05:50 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
Why would I want a driverless car? Haven't driven in years. I have a driver. Not sure I even can drive anymore. Is it like riding a bicycle where once you learn it you never forget? God help the other drivers if I try to find out.

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01-10-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
(01-10-2015 05:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why would I want a driverless car? Haven't driven in years. I have a driver. Not sure I can anymore. Is it like riding a bicycle where once you learn it you never forget?

Nekk minute: "Old fat hairy man crashes after driving wrong way on motorway. All that was left of the car he was in was a small tube of ball cream."

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01-10-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: What Kind of Driverless Car are you going to buy?
(01-10-2015 05:50 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 05:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why would I want a driverless car? Haven't driven in years. I have a driver. Not sure I can anymore. Is it like riding a bicycle where once you learn it you never forget?

Nekk minute: "Old fat hairless man crashes after driving wrong way on motorway. All that was left of the car he was in was a small tube of ball cream."

Fixt. Big Grin

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