What Proof do Atheists Want?
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25-11-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
There is proof everywhere that people prefer their beliefs to reality.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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25-11-2012, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 08:00 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 06:29 AM)Egor Wrote:  To those who believe in God, no proof is necessary--or perhaps it's just that we see proof everywhere. What's so frustrating about atheists is that they seem to refuse to see this proof, but maybe that's not fair. Maybe they really can't see any proof.

If you're an atheist (or theist) what proof do you need?


For me to believe in any god, I would require testable and demonstrable evidence.

And no, before you wish to start Special Pleading the case that evidence is everywhere; The Bible (or any other biblical text) does not count as evidence or even testimonial (which is inadmissible evidence anyway) to support it's claims, even if you forego the absolutely overwhelming amount inaccuracies it has which destroys it's credibility from day one anyway.
And the simple fact that we are unsure of something does not mean god exists either; God of the Gaps is fallacious speculation at the very best and as such is not evidence either.

I'll even add in a second possibility which would make me believe in god.

God appears to all human beings at exactly the same time, cures all sicknesses, disabilities and diseases simultaneously, while levitating two meters off the ground with a freshly conjured sun floating just above the palm of its right hand. And it identifies itself as whichever specific god it is. (assuming if it is a god we already have defined that is.) And addresses each human by their full name and titles, including certifications and states the date of birth down to the nanosecond.

For a god, it sames reasonable enough to assume it could do all that I request and not even consider creating a sweat.

And you know what?

Neither of the two consistencies will ever be fulfilled.

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25-11-2012, 07:59 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 07:55 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 06:29 AM)Egor Wrote:  To those who believe in God, no proof is necessary--or perhaps it's just that we see proof everywhere. What's so frustrating about atheists is that they seem to refuse to see this proof, but maybe that's not fair. Maybe they really can't see any proof.

If you're an atheist (or theist) what proof do you need?


For me to believe in any god, I would require testable and demonstrable evidence.

And no, before you wish to start Special Pleading the case that evidence is everywhere; The Bible (or any other biblical text) does not count as evidence or even testimonial (which is inadmissible evidence anyway) to support it's claims, even if you forego the absolutely overwhelming amount inaccuracies it has which destroys it's credibility from day one anyway.
And the simple fact that we are unsure of something does not mean god exists either; God of the Gaps is fallacious speculation at the very best and as such is not evidence either.

I'll even add in a second possibility which would make me believe in god.

God appears to all human beings at exactly the same time, cures all sicknesses, disabilities and diseases simultaneously, while levitating two meters off the ground with a freshly conjured sun floating just above the palm of its right hand. And it identifies itself as whichever specific god it is. (assuming if it is a god we already have defined that is.)

And you know what?

Neither of the two consistencies will ever be fulfilled.
Actually I would propose that someone defines what a god even is, and what they propose how said god "exists" in such a way to be proven. Once someone can actually establish that, then they could begin with providing evidence that falls within the categories. Otherwise, the argument is nothing more than a god of the gaps, or an argument from ignorance.
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25-11-2012, 08:01 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
I run under the assumption that "god/s" are generally meant to mean "all powerful creator of shit"... Or something like that.

I know it's a sweeping generalization but it seems about Egor's speed... But then again a foil ball would appear to be as well.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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25-11-2012, 08:36 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Observable, testable, REtestable, and consistent evidence.
(I need to start charging people who make me type that)

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25-11-2012, 08:55 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
I have a cup of coffee balanced on the edge of my computer desk with a string attached to the handle. I believe all the gods that have ever existed are pulling on that string attempting to spill the coffee. A mad belief for sure,.

My belief in something doesn't alter reality.
Your belief in god will never effect reality, no matter how hard you mentally encourage your god to pull on that string, in the end, it's just you trying to effect reality with your own thoughts.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-11-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Different atheists each have their own different burdens of proof regarding this matter, of course. Personally, I am mostly in agreement with Greta Christina's take on the matter. (I differ from her opinion here and there, but not in any way that's really significant.)

http://www.alternet.org/story/147424/6_%...eve_in_god

In addition to what she has to say, I would also add this angle:

I don't know what proof would be sufficient for me. However, if your God exists and is omniscient, he knows what it would take to convince me. And if he's omnipotent, he's also capable of giving me whatever it is. And if he wants me to believe in him, he should give it to me. And yet, here I sit, atheist-ing away. The best I can figure it, there are four possible explanations for this.

1) God is not omniscient.
2) God is not omnipotent.
3) God does not want me to believe in him (or doesn't care whether I do or not).
4) God does not exist.

None of these options is generally acceptable to believers, of course. But I know which one makes the most sense to me.
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25-11-2012, 09:19 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 08:01 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I run under the assumption that "god/s" are generally meant to mean "all powerful creator of shit"... Or something like that.

I know it's a sweeping generalization but it seems about Egor's speed... But then again a foil ball would appear to be as well.
"generally" - but then again, most people can't really agree on it. So before I could take them seriously, I'd want them to define it first.
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25-11-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Only god himself can prove to me that he exists.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-11-2012, 09:41 AM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  Only god himself can prove to me that he exists.
Is it a he or a she? Angel
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