What Proof do Atheists Want?
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25-11-2012, 12:55 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 12:38 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 11:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Christians believe because of faith. Not just generic faith either... but a faith in God; however, only Christians can have this type of faith. It is a gift from God (Eph 2:8). So, this gift is undeniable and unrelenting... Christians HAVE to have faith... they have no other choice because it is bestowed to them by God.
Huh, so I guess that makes you "chosen" by God? Because he did not give me the gift of faith? Why are you so privileged? Mostly because I was not born into a religious family. And because I was not chosen, I will have to suffer in hell for eternity due to a lack of belief, despite the fact that I have tried to be a good person and help others as the primary goals of my life? Yet a murderer and rapist can just accept your God at the last moment and go to heaven? Yet this is a god I am supposed to respect and worship?

If that's the case, your God sounds pretty petty and childish.
Actually, no.

I'm a Calvinist.

God chooses salvation and damnation. A person can't choose to be a murderer and then repent on his deathbed and go to heaven.

God already chose everyone who is going to heaven and going to hell. Nothing can change that.

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25-11-2012, 01:10 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
So basically, you are chosen, I am rejected, therefore you will go to heaven and I will go to hell, no matter how much good I do in the world.
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25-11-2012, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 02:23 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 12:38 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  Huh, so I guess that makes you "chosen" by God? Because he did not give me the gift of faith? Why are you so privileged? Mostly because I was not born into a religious family. And because I was not chosen, I will have to suffer in hell for eternity due to a lack of belief, despite the fact that I have tried to be a good person and help others as the primary goals of my life? Yet a murderer and rapist can just accept your God at the last moment and go to heaven? Yet this is a god I am supposed to respect and worship?

If that's the case, your God sounds pretty petty and childish.
Actually, no.

I'm a Calvinist.

God chooses salvation and damnation. A person can't choose to be a murderer and then repent on his deathbed and go to heaven.

God already chose everyone who is going to heaven and going to hell. Nothing can change that.

That actually means that you think some were created specifically to suffer for 10^(infinite) power years. You call THAT a god ? No

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25-11-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Actually, no.

I'm a Calvinist.

God chooses salvation and damnation. A person can't choose to be a murderer and then repent on his deathbed and go to heaven.

God already chose everyone who is going to heaven and going to hell. Nothing can change that.
Same as how some people buy some cars just for show. They don't want to fuck up the car; they set it aside, gathering dust, not letting it be used the way it was built to be used. Instead they are preserving it. And nothing can change it. The owner decides what happens to it, no one else.

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25-11-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 01:10 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  So basically, you are chosen, I am rejected, therefore you will go to heaven and I will go to hell, no matter how much good I do in the world.
Well... I don't know whether or not you are elected... as you could have a regeneration at any time, but yes, the premise is correct. No matter what the non-elect do, they are damned.

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25-11-2012, 01:14 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 01:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Actually, no.

I'm a Calvinist.

God chooses salvation and damnation. A person can't choose to be a murderer and then repent on his deathbed and go to heaven.

God already chose everyone who is going to heaven and going to hell. Nothing can change that.
That actually means that you think some were created specifically to suffer for 10^(infinite) power years. You can THAT a god ? No
That is correct. God created people specifically to be victims of sin - that is to fulfill Christ.

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25-11-2012, 01:14 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Also, I don't want to derail Ed's thread, so come to the Ask a Theist thread if you have more questions.

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25-11-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 01:10 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  So basically, you are chosen, I am rejected, therefore you will go to heaven and I will go to hell, no matter how much good I do in the world.
Well... I don't know whether or not you are elected... as you could have a regeneration at any time, but yes, the premise is correct. No matter what the non-elect do, they are damned.
And this is a god that you worship? One who is totally arbitrary, and would allow those who live good and just lives to be punished for eternity? Punished only for not being among the chosen? With all due respect, that's insane.
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25-11-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 01:18 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well... I don't know whether or not you are elected... as you could have a regeneration at any time, but yes, the premise is correct. No matter what the non-elect do, they are damned.
And this is a god that you worship? One who is totally arbitrary, and would allow those who live good and just lives to be punished for eternity? Punished only for not being among the chosen? With all due respect, that's insane.
To be fair it is no more insane than the basic Christian beliefs, or mormon, or jewish, or muslim, or well... I guess what you could say is crazy is all a part of the concept.

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25-11-2012, 01:21 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 01:27 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Edit. I've reposted this in the ask a theist thread to prevent derailment.
(25-11-2012 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Actually, no.

I'm a Calvinist.

God chooses salvation and damnation. A person can't choose to be a murderer and then repent on his deathbed and go to heaven.

God already chose everyone who is going to heaven and going to hell. Nothing can change that.

And you still worship it? A god that will just as easily send a child to suffer in agony for Eternity as it would a mass murderer. For no reason that the child had any control over?

Your god is not a just god. Or a fair or loving god. It intentionally makes people just to suffer in hell. It's cruel.

It is not a being worth of the worship of any decent human being. It's a monster only deserving of hatred.

Knowing all that how can you still worship it?

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