What Proof do Atheists Want?
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25-11-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 02:01 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 01:48 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Your measurement for more insanity is flawed.
Magic underwear is less insane than lack of free will? How so?
Lack of free will is demonstrable, whereas magic underpants is not.

Robots lack free will. I've never heard of an example of functioning magical underwear.
I guess because one explanation that some have for religions is that it helps to create community and moral behavior (theoretically). But a religion that is based on being chosen or not, and there is nothing an individual can do to change their status seems even more pointless to me than most religions. Which is saying quite a lot. Maybe insane is not the correct word.


No, no, insane is an excellent word. Yes

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25-11-2012, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 02:51 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 02:01 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  I guess because one explanation that some have for religion is that it helps to create community and moral behavior (theoretically). But a religion that is based on being chosen or not, and there is nothing an individual can do to change their status seems even more pointless to me than most religions. Which is saying quite a lot. Maybe insane is not the correct word.

Pointless is the proper term. But "more pointless" is redundant.

(25-11-2012 01:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't remember him explicitly saying that. I thought he said that he was no longer addicted after the conversion.

My recollection is that he experienced no withdrawal symptoms during his detox and attributed that precisely to his conversion. Which would make it a true Road to Damascus event or analogy.

(25-11-2012 01:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  However, I think he has replaced one addiction with another. This happens quite often in the recovery community.

The former is far more deleterious than the latter. Think he's actually worked the latter rather impressively. It ain't gonna hurt him none. There ain't gonna be no prom, him dressing up for the prom is of no consequence.

(25-11-2012 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 02:01 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  I guess because one explanation that some have for religions is that it helps to create community and moral behavior (theoretically). But a religion that is based on being chosen or not, and there is nothing an individual can do to change their status seems even more pointless to me than most religions. Which is saying quite a lot. Maybe insane is not the correct word.


No, no, insane is an excellent word. Yes

Fucking Kantian. Tongue

I associate insanity with dysfunctional, not irrational, but I ain't no shrink. Most of the human population who don't even know the definition of "rationality" would qualify as insane by the Kantian's definition. If KC's insane, he's clearly functionally insane. And so am I and more than a few others around here I can think of. I call him metaphysically delusional. And so am I and more than a few others around here I can think of. But since we all have the responsibility to formulate our own metaphysics, our own individual metaphysical differences don't mean dick so I just call us all mildly delusional. Especially the Kantian who considers all other metaphysics insane. Tongue

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25-11-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 02:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My recollection is that he experienced no withdrawal symptoms during his detox and attributed that precisely to his conversion. Which would make it a true Road to Damascus event or analogy.


I know someone like that. He was higher than a kite on acid and god came to him and told him he would die if he didn't stop all the drugs. So he stopped, no withdrawal from anything (and he used everything). He has been a devout christian for some 30 years now. Goes to church 3 times a week.

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25-11-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
I'd accept many things as evidence of a god; being granted magic powers by a floating man, having every animal become vegetarian and live in harmony in a world with no death, or to have someone named Egor mail me a cheque for $1,000,000. It wouldn't prove your specific god, but it would certainly make me a believer in the supernatural.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

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25-11-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Anyone who believes in a religion's established fairy is more than a little delusional. Drinking Beverage

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25-11-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Whatever, we are arguing about semantics. I should not have used the word "insane". My point is that there is a big difference between KC's version of Christianity and most other religions in that someone who is not chosen by God is shut out of salvation, no matter what they do or believe. This vision of God is even more unjust than the God described in your run-of-the-mill Christianity, which is saying a lot.
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25-11-2012, 02:46 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 02:45 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  Whatever, we are arguing about semantics. I should not have used the word "insane". My point is that there is a big difference between KC's version of Christianity and most other religions in that someone who is not chosen by God is shut out of salvation, no matter what they do or believe. This vision of God is even more unjust than the God described in your run-of-the-mill Christianity, which is saying a lot.
His God is unjust if viable Tongue
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25-11-2012, 02:51 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 02:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, no, insane is an excellent word. Yes

Fucking Kantian. Tongue

Nope, not Kantian.

Quote:I associate insanity with dysfunctional, not irrational, but I ain't no shrink. Most of the human population who don't even know the definition of "rationality" would qualify as insane by the Kantian's definition. If KC's insane, he's clearly functionally insane. And so am I and more than a few others around here I can think of. I call him metaphysically delusional. And so am I and more than a few others around here I can think of. But since we all have the responsibility to formulate our own metaphysics, our own individual metaphysical differences don't mean dick so I just call us all mildly delusional. Especially the Kantian who considers all other metaphysics insane. Tongue

Nope. I only consider insane metaphysics insane. Like Calvinism.

I'm an agnostic atheist, so I ain't sayin' there is no god. But there is no evidence of one.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-11-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
Egor my new lobotomy technique will endure your place in the Underverse. You refuse to accept the idea that without this lobotomy your soul cannot pass into the Underverse.

What proof do I need to offer you that this is true ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-11-2012, 03:14 PM
RE: What Proof do Atheists Want?
(25-11-2012 06:29 AM)Egor Wrote:  To those who believe in God, no proof is necessary--or perhaps it's just that we see proof everywhere. What's so frustrating about atheists is that they seem to refuse to see this proof, but maybe that's not fair. Maybe they really can't see any proof.

If you're an atheist (or theist) what proof do you need?
I have all the proof I need. As I watch the sun make its daily trip from one horizon to the other, I can see that Apollo is hard at work in my life. Fish and chips is a favourite meal - and I can tell that Poseidon has blessed us with his bounty. I gaze at my wife of 40 years and know that Venus has blessed me with the gift of love.

Lightning is giving me some trouble, though. Both Raijin and Thor lay claim to lightning.... and I sure wouldn't want to get caught worshipping the wrong god.

I heard about this Yahweh guy... but he sometimes gets called jehovah or allah. Not sure about a god with an identity crisis going on...
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