What Proof do Theists Want?
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28-11-2012, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2012 08:46 AM by Logisch.)
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 02:40 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Seriously? Are you trolling? You really think people here, people with whom you communicate and share ideas, people who have been kind (and sometimes not so kind) to you - you really think we're animals?

Don't let yourself get riled up (it's not worth your time). Not to mention if it seems like trolling, or if you can't tell if someone is serious, best to stick with your gut. Red flags raise for a reason.

Depending on the meaning of "animals" we are literally animals. Just as our primate friends, which isn't really an insult. If reference to "you act like a bunch of animals" I'd propose to the one who resorts to ad hominem is acting more immature and animal like than those who are trying to have a meaningful conversation.

Technically speaking, lucradis set the bait and egor took it. Ridicule becomes common when people can no longer justify their claims, or perhaps they justify it with things that others cannot "experience" or understand, or things that they can't backup with anything more than personal confirmation or an ad hoc analysis of things with nothing to back it up. We talk about evidence, or what evidence someone would take to stop believing. In my opinion there is just as much proof for god as there is just as much proof there isn't... which is none. So really this entire argument has instead edged towards "Something that would give me a better feeling than what I get now." which is at least from my perspective, emotional bias. It's what feels good, or what gives you a good sense of something. I can safely say I felt the same when I was a theist, but I feel great now, just without all the superstition to aid it.

That said, I don't think you're going to have anything that will cause someone to simply "drop" their belief instantly, or a moment or magic bullet that will "take it down" - I think it is hard for some us (as ex-theists) to re-trace all of our steps and find out exactly everything or "the moment" we stopped believing, since many things led up to it over a course of time.

Only if a person is genuinely interested in searching and willing to dump what they actually believe and truly 100% try something on and considering what they previously knew may be wrong, would they be able to consider something else. Many people try things on to an extent, but maintain a bit of bias towards existing beliefs. Sort of a comfort zone, escape route or leave their foot in the door afraid it's going to shut on them. I know I personally did that for a long time.
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28-11-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
Of course I'm an animal dude. Sometimes I think I'd rather be a cat or some sort of majestic bird, but alas I am destined to live out my days as a human.

Working in the field of mental health I would hope you would recognize signs of an unhealthy mind. I wasn't trying to piss you off by saying that I think you might have an issue. Even medicated you might still believe in god, but seeking some help might help any larger less obvious issues you might have. If not then no harm done.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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28-11-2012, 09:15 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
At least as a cat people would give you food and litter. So all you'd really have to do is shit, eat, tear shit up, meow and piss off your owner but then give you big cute kitty eyes and they'll go "Awww it's ok lucradis, I love you anyway." and get free hugs.
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28-11-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 09:15 AM)Logisch Wrote:  At least as a cat people would give you food and litter. So all you'd really have to do is shit, eat, tear shit up, meow and piss off your owner but then give you big cute kitty eyes and they'll go "Awww it's ok lucradis, I love you anyway." and get free hugs.
Or, if he were my cat, he'd very soon meet the front end of my car.

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28-11-2012, 09:53 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
I won't ever look for proof that God does not exist. The reason is because there is none.
There never will be proof of something not ever existing.
There may be evidence, or logical arguments that opens a persons understanding to the realization of the nonexistence of something - but nonetheless, it will never be a certainty.

BUT, lets get hypothetical here (you didn't apply rules).

Lets say, hypothetically, that you have a magic 8 ball. This magic 8 ball that you have is unique from other magic 8 balls because this one actually answers your question with an absolute answer that is never false.
You hand me this ball and I ask the ball if God exists - the ball tells me "no", in which case I would need to believe so. If that ball does in fact tell the truth, then I should believe it. Granted, it would be sort of interesting that we have a real "magic 8 ball" yet it expects me to believe that nothing else supernatural exists.. <.<

Anyways, back to reality -

Here is one way you could convince me that God does not exist:

Break down all of my logical understandings and perceptions that lead me to believe Gods existence more logical than not. Do that, and I would believe He does not exist.
That kind of feat takes a lot of time, effort, knowledge and skill.
It's the same way for convincing Atheists.
Once you've broken down the system of understanding that glues together the belief in the existence of God, then you just let the person do the rest of the work themselves. Eventually, they will come to their unbelief/belief on their own.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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28-11-2012, 10:04 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 09:53 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Break down all of my logical understandings and perceptions that lead me to believe Gods existence more logical than not.
I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on that, pal.

Also, welcome back. Smile

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28-11-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
I think we need to understand what "we" are first and WTF this is (consciousness) before we can even begin to consider any ramifications of what our ever so short lifespans mean/do in this multidimensional, fractal and "holographic" thing we have named the universe.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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28-11-2012, 10:42 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 10:04 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on that, pal.

Also, welcome back. Smile

Elaborate on what? Are you talking about elaborating on why I believe Gods existence to be more logical than not?
I hope this doesn't start another pointless thread lol Please dear goodness no.. not again!

And thank you! Smile
May not be back for long. Just stopping by for a little bit I suppose.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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28-11-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 10:42 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Elaborate on what? Are you talking about elaborating on why I believe Gods existence to be more logical than not?
Yes.

(28-11-2012 10:42 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I hope this doesn't start another pointless thread lol Please dear goodness no.. not again!
Well, it's been a few months and you still haven't told us why you believe in god. I do understand that you were hindered by certain events in your life, but the fact remains that you've yet to give us any reasons (not even bad reasons) for your belief. I don't think I'll hold my breath much longer.

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28-11-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: What Proof do Theists Want?
(28-11-2012 10:58 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(28-11-2012 10:42 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I hope this doesn't start another pointless thread lol Please dear goodness no.. not again!
Well, it's been a few months and you still haven't told us why you believe in god. I do understand that you were hindered by certain events in your life, but the fact remains that you've yet to give us any reasons (not even bad reasons) for your belief. I don't think I'll hold my breath much longer.

I may or may not do so.

This Forum didn't turn out to be a learning experience. It's more like a - Teach Theists how ridiculous their beliefs are - place.
I do realize that not all of you are that way. But for the most part, many of you tend to act superior to someone once they say they believe God exists.
Your mind closes to any argument or logic for Gods existence and just respond as though you will never accept any answer at all.

So if I do explain why I believe God exists (Which I have done many times already throughout this Forum), it will no longer be for learning experience on your or my part. It will just be for explanation purposes.

One cannot reason with one who wishes not to be reasoned with.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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