What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-10-2012, 12:17 AM
What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
Enough music links for now.

The SAB indicates that, according to the Bible, the end would come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners. I will demonstrate why this is not the case by explaining the verses they use to conclude this. They mistake the transfiguration, the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus being at the right hand of power, and John's Revelation at Patmos.

Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1 / Luke 9:27)

The Interpreter's Bible says: "The prediction was not fulfilled, and later Christians found it necessary to explain that it was metaphorical."

What believers and skeptics alike seem to have glossed over is the fact that in the very next verse Matthew reveals that just 6 days later this prophecy was fulfilled. Peter, James and John witnessed the transfiguration. (Matthew 17:1-2 / Luke 9:27-36 / 2 Peter 1:16-18)

Matthew 23:36 - Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Also see Matthew 24:34 / Mark 13:30 / Luke 21:32)

All of the above verses differ from the verses given in consideration of Matthew 16:28. British scholar G. R. Beasley-Murray: "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age, age of humankind, or generation in the sense of contemporaries. . . . In sayings attributed to Jesus the term appears to have a twofold connotation: on the one hand it always signifies his contemporaries, and on the other hand it always carries an implicit criticism."

So Jesus could have been directing that statement to the Jewish opposition there around him at that time, who, within a generation would see the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 C.E. by Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian where 1,100,000 Jews died and 97,000 were taken captive, most of whom died horrible deaths and the Christians who knew it would come were saved. (Matthew 24:16, 22) And Jesus may have been applying the same to those in opposition in the future as well.

Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62 are parallel accounts to one another and you won't have to wait or look far to see them fulfilled. Acts 7:55-56: "But he, being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand, and he said: "Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God's right hand." Also see Psalm 110:1 / Luke 22:69 / Ephesians 1:20 / Colossians 3:1.

John 21:20-23 is somewhat interesting. Jesus may have been telling Peter that John would live longer than him, and in fact John would live 70 years, but also he might have been referring to the prophetic vision that John was given at the end of his life while in exile on the island of Patmos. As recorded in the book of Revelation John was transported to "the Lords day." (Revelation 1:1, 10; Revelation 22:20)


[SAB] - The end will come within the lifetime of the New Testament authors.

Response: Jesus taught his followers that no one, not even Jesus himself, knew the time of the end of the world. (Matthew 24:36 / Mark 13:32 / Acts 1:7)

Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world." The Bible says that Earth was given to man for him to fill and subdue it, that the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it, and that it will last forever. (Genesis 1:28 / Psalm 37:29; 115:16 / Ecclesiastes 1:4) The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves. Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 7:29 / Philippians 1:10 all convey the importance of the missionary work in the early stages of Christianity. They all had important work to do before the end of their lives. Nowhere in any of these passages is it conveyed that they expected the end of the system of things to occur during that time.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is often used to support the rapture, but actually it is referring to some who were mourning the death of their fellow Christians. Paul was reminding them as well as faithful Christians in the future of the resurrection hope, some to heaven immediately upon death and some to paradise earth upon resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 refers to the presence of Jesus Christ. The Greek noun parousia is used. It means "being alongside." In his work on The Parousia, Israel P. Warren, D.D., wrote: "Had our translators done with this technical word 'parousia' as they did with 'baptisma,' - transferring it unchanged, - or if translated using its exact etymological equivalent, presence, and had it been well understood, as it then would have been, that there is no such thing as a 'Second Presence,' I believe that the entire doctrine would have been different from what it now is. The phrases, 'second advent,' and 'second coming,' would never have been heard of. The church would have been taught to speak of The Presence Of The Lord, as that from which its hopes were to be realized, whether in the near future or at the remotest period, - that under which the world was to be made new, a resurrection both spiritual and corporeal should be attained, and justice and everlasting awards administered."

The word occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39 / 1 Corinthians 15:23; 16:17 / 2 Corinthians 7:6, 7; 10:10 / Philippians 1:26; 2:12 / 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23 / 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9 / James 5:7, 8 / 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12 / 1 John 2:28.

Pareimi is a related verb with the similar meaning of being present. It also occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 26:50 / Luke 13:1 / John 7:6; 11:28 / Acts 10:21, 33; 12:20; 17:6; 24:19 / Acts 12:20 / 1 Corinthians 5:3, 3 / 2 Corinthians 10:2, 11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 13:2, 10 / Galatians 4:18, 20 / Colossians 1:6 / Hebrews 12:11; 13:5 / 2 Peter 1:9, 12 / Revelation 17:8.

The Greek word, eleusis (Latin adventu), which conveys the physical act of coming is different and only occurs once in the Christian Greek scripture, at Acts 7:52. Paul was encouraging those with a heavenly hope to remain blameless until their death, or the conclusion of the system of things and the presence, not the physical presence, of Jesus Christ.

In discussing Hebrews 1:2; 9:26 / 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7 it is somewhat difficult to stay on topic of the so called end of the world because the last days that Paul was referring to were not the last days of the present system of things, but rather the last days of the Jewish system of things. Jehovah had given the prophecy of those days 850 years earlier. (Joel 2:28-32 / Acts 2:16-21 / Hebrews 1:1-2) It was the end of God's favor upon the Jewish congregation and the beginning of his favor for the new Christian congregation.

1 John 2:18 refers to the end of the apostolic period. The work mentioned as important in the scriptures at the beginning of this article were near completion and would conclude upon the death of John shortly after he completed the writing of Revelation.


[SAB] - The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years or so)

Response: It is interesting that, as with the case of Philippians 4:5, the Lord that is being referred to isn't Jesus Christ but rather, Jehovah. Codex Sinaiticus, Greek, fourth century C.E., Codex Alexandrinus, Greek, fifth century C.E., Vatican ms 1209, Greek, fourth century C.E., Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Hebrew, by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599, Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by William Robertson, London, 1661, and the Latin Vulgate, by Jerome, c. 400 C.E. (Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem) all read Jehovah.

James 5:7-8 is talking about the presence (parousia) mentioned earlier in this article.

At Hebrews 10:37 Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:2-3 from the Greek Septuagint, which reads "And the Lord answered [me] and said: Write a vision; write it distinctly in a book that the reader may trace these things [may run]; for the vision is for a time yet to come. But it will spring up at last and will not be vain. Though he may tarry, wait for him; for he will assuredly come and will not fail [and will not tarry]."

Revelation 1:1, 3; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20 may undoubtedly amuse the skeptic, who, of course, is familiar with the Biblical fact that a thousand years are as a watch in the night to God (Psalm 90:4), but to the writers of the Bible, especially John when writing Revelation and who would die shortly afterward, the resurrection hope would follow sleep in death which would seem, upon that resurrection, as the same day as they died, though it actually had been thousands of years.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2012, 08:32 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
Here's the shorter version on the same subject:

The Bible says absolutely nothing about the end of the world.

In fact, I specifically remember saying this prayer when I used to be a Christian:

Glory be to the Father,
and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning,
is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.


Also, heaven is supposed to be here on Earth after the second coming of Jesus. How could that be if the world came to an end...?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Impulse's post
30-10-2012, 08:35 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
Did you just type this or....

[Image: 379.jpg]

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like lucradis's post
30-10-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
(30-10-2012 08:32 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Here's the shorter version on the same subject:

The Bible says absolutely nothing about the end of the world.

In fact, I specifically remember saying this prayer when I used to be a Christian:

Glory be to the Father,
and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning,
is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.


Also, heaven is supposed to be here on Earth after the second coming of Jesus. How could that be if the world came to an end...?

Shorter version:

Hey guys... some people think some verses in a book written by some sheep herders mean this. I disagree, here's a lot of quoted version and rambling as to why. Feel free to disagree with me about my disagreement. Discuss things.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Logisch's post
30-10-2012, 08:42 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2012 09:00 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
The "Interpreters Bible" says nothing of the sort. The "Interpreters Bible" says many things, about most topics, as it's a compilation and discussion by many scholars, which The Theist didn't even know about until a couple weeks ago when we told him about it, and he has obviously not even read it. It's also from the 1950's, and scholarship has moved WAY beyond that phase, and he continues to quote only ONE scholar who's views were always thought to be outside the norm. (The Argument from Authority Fallacy). He assumes people here won't notice his tricks. They're very obvious to most people who have even taken Biblical Studies 101.

As usual all of The Theist's arguments are essentially circular, as he ONLY knows how to argue using Babble quotes, and knows no History, or Ancient Culture, or Comparative Mythology. In short, he is utterly ignorant of the subject he wishes to appear knowledgeable about. This is called Sophistry. It's a common phenomenon seen with Theists, and especially Christian Fundamentalist Theists who have only done (self) "Bible study", and have no academic study ABOUT the Bible to draw from.

Jesus was one of about 20 Apocalyptic preachers. He, and the very early sub-sect in Judaism called the "Way" sect, who thought that Yeshua ben Josef was the "anointed One", (the "messiah") DID think the end times was immanent, and in fact he said so more than once. "Verily I say unto you, THIS generation will not pass away" ...etc. After the bar Kochba revolt, (133 CE), and when Jerusalem was completely destroyed, and the end STILL had not come, they changed the message of the new cult to a more "spiritual" message, to be able to attract adherents. In fact even the Apostles, just before the "risen Jesus" was about to leave for good, said to him (Acts 1), "Wilt thou O Lord, at this time restore the kingdom to Israel", which is proof, that even that late they STILL thought of his message as temporal, and 100% political.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Bucky Ball's post
30-10-2012, 08:44 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
(30-10-2012 08:35 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Did you just type this or....

[Image: 379.jpg]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm pasta.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Logisch's post
30-10-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
Why does every word of the Good Word need about 800 clarifications?

BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN BY A BUNCH OF FUCKING NUTBAGS. Oh my Gwynnies. Big Grin

(30-10-2012 08:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  end times was immanent,

imminent. You keep doing that. Dodgy

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like houseofcantor's post
30-10-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
(30-10-2012 08:57 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Why does every word of the Good Word need about 800 clarifications?

BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN BY A BUNCH OF FUCKING NUTBAGS. Oh my Gwynnies. Big Grin

(30-10-2012 08:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  end times was immanent,

imminent. You keep doing that. Dodgy

So beat me. Please ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
What guarantees do you have Theist that your interpretation of that book is the right one?

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2012, 09:09 AM
RE: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World
TL;DR

1914 was a very popular choice for the End of Days for Witnesses, and then as a sign of 'Oh, we got it wrong, but that's just because He wanted to test us, and it's a sign it's near'. Well, everything could be taken as a sign that we're getting nearer to any date, because of the passing of time on our relatively insignificant planet.

And just to show how much humans have got it wrong, a long list, of 242 dates for the End of the World.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

In the End, I'll leave you with this closing statement:

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: