What We Know
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05-12-2012, 02:57 AM
What We Know
(Please bear with me if the following is scrambled in any way - I'm quite inebriated at the moment Big Grin )

I was in an online discussion tonight with a gentleman on Youtube regarding scientific laws; speaking specifically on the topic of life on other planets. He says that claiming certain scientific findings to be "laws" is somewhat arrogant on the part of scientists, given our limited knowledge of how the majority of the mind-fuckingly huge Universe works. For anyone who shares his sentiments, I thought our discussion may be relevant.

(I am "SeedsOfHatred" in the following exchange)

Why are many scientists so narrow minded and naive? I enjoy the science then kablamo!! They think life will only be on planets similar to earth and in the supposed "habitable zone"?? How arrogant and naive! Just because we live on a planet that's a certain way, all other life in the universe must live according to our rules? I find this arrogant and irritating! It's like finding people living in a forest and then declaring that if you want to find humans, you should only look in forests!
Kanben Severn

Life, as we understand it, requires an atmosphere similar to ours in order to survive. If there are other atmospheres capable of supporting life, we don't know of them. Thus, it makes sense to look for something similar to our own planet; so we'll be able to readily identify what we've been looking for if and when we find it.
SeedsOfHatred

Maybe "as we understand it". But what do we know about life so far? Our knowledge is limited to the extremely tiny, close to negligible sample used to establish that theory. That sample is earth. How big is the universe? It's so big, if our whole galaxy vanished, no-one out there would even notice. Yet they apply what they have learned on this tiny planet to the whole universe?? I've said several times already, the universe is so big that if you can imagine ANYTHING, it almost certainly exists!
Kanben Severn

I'm not disagreeing with you. But as you said; our knowledge is limited when it comes to life. Scientists must operate within those limitations, because that's all we know to look for. That's not arrogance. Quite the opposite, really.
SeedsOfHatred

I agree. And I do understand. I have respect for their abilities and the work they do. But then it all ends there. When, as the other commentor says, things like that are claimed to be a LAW that applies to the whole universe, then I don't have the grammar or vocabulary to put into words just how crazy that sounds to me. To apply earth rules of life to the whole entire universe? We don't even know what's on Mars. Why would they state something like that as a law?
Kanben Severn

Unless there's something you and I are missing, quite honestly, I don't know. BUT, we're questioning things - up to and including the most seasoned of scientists. That is the true nature of science itself, and it is a wonderful thing.

We must also question ourselves, however. As I implied, there could be something you and I are missing. I have to admit a measure of ignorance regarding astrobiology, personally.
SeedsOfHatred

I agree. However, apart from good ol' educated common sense, there are some things that help. One is the way the science establishment works (and gets funded). There are major flaws. Then there's history. Way too many theories and findings have been proved wrong. It pays to be cautious. Then there's numbers. The universe is very, V-E-R-Y BIG!! Then there's lack of experimentation. They currently have no way to check what's out there so they shouldn't be making any laws about life out there!
Kanben Severn

Scientists readily acknowledge that they can be wrong. That's why we call things such as gravity a "theory". It's a fact, colloquially speaking, but in the interest of intellectual humility, we call its function a theory.

When scientists make "laws", they do so in accordance with what we currently know. They acknowledge that it's possible they can be proved totally wrong one day. But until such time, these "laws" will remain in effect. We have little reason to dismiss them as otherwise.
SeedsOfHatred

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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05-12-2012, 04:19 AM
RE: What We Know
There are certain fundamental constants or physical laws that will apply no matter where you are in the universe. Initially, I agree with both sides. Yes, indeed there are other possibilities/combinations that support life out there. However, we should first use Earth as a reference, since we know for sure that if a planet does match the conditions on Earth, lifeforms similar to Earth can be supported there.

I want to know what are the flaws he claims that science has?
He seems to be using this line of logic, that since so many findings have been proven wrong in the past, science is not credible. Well, that is exactly what makes science credible. Science is willing to change based on new findings that better explain the natural world.

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

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05-12-2012, 06:47 AM
RE: What We Know
Just boil it down to what I always say:

"We don't know shit. Yet."

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-12-2012, 06:54 AM
RE: What We Know
(05-12-2012 06:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  Just boil it down to what I always say:

"We don't know shit. Yet."
Well, we know some shit. And we know a little about some other shit. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-12-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: What We Know
I'm getting tired of open-minded people from the New Age movement.

Science is hard work and ferociously self-critic. Some respect, please!

These so-called open minded don't know shit and act like they know The shit.

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05-12-2012, 07:42 PM
RE: What We Know
I don't remember posting this. Blink
Lmao

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12-12-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: What We Know
(05-12-2012 07:42 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I don't remember posting this. Blink
Lmao

That's why you don't smoke weed before posting Big Grin
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12-12-2012, 07:59 PM
RE: What We Know
(12-12-2012 02:41 PM)Magoo Wrote:  
(05-12-2012 07:42 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I don't remember posting this. Blink
Lmao

That's why you don't smoke weed before posting Big Grin
lol. I was actually just drunk.
Well..."smashed" would be more appropriate. I rarely get drunk enough to forget my actions, but that night...

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Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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12-12-2012, 08:45 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 08:50 PM by Janus.)
RE: What We Know
(12-12-2012 02:41 PM)Magoo Wrote:  
(05-12-2012 07:42 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I don't remember posting this. Blink
Lmao

That's why you don't smoke weed before posting Big Grin


I do! Big Grin Before everything I do! Big Grin Enhancing daily life for 44 years now. Big Grin You could make a lot worse choices. Big Grin

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12-12-2012, 11:35 PM
RE: What We Know
(05-12-2012 06:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-12-2012 06:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  Just boil it down to what I always say:

"We don't know shit. Yet."
Well, we know some shit. And we know a little about some other shit. Consider
So it seems wise to treat a good deal of the shit judiciously.

mini banned but not browned off-----------Cool
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