What about energy?
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27-11-2016, 01:35 AM
What about energy?
I've talked with some new age people who say and think that when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed.....how would you respond to that???
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27-11-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: What about energy?
(27-11-2016 01:35 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've talked with some new age people who say and think that when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed.....how would you respond to that???

What energy? Which creator? Please provide independently verifiable evidence.

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27-11-2016, 05:10 AM
RE: What about energy?
Where does your "energy" go when you die????

Ask a battery.

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27-11-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: What about energy?
(27-11-2016 01:35 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've talked with some new age people who say and think that when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed.....how would you respond to that???

Which creator? And what evidence do they have for that specific creator?

So if I take an X-Box and smash into a million pieces with a hammer, can I still play games on it?

They're skipping over a few details about what happens to the matter in our body after it dies and how important that particular arrangement of matter is to sustaining your consciousness.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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27-11-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: What about energy?
I mean, matter is neither created nor destroyed upon your death but it's not created or destroyed at your birth either. What makes you "you" is both the matter and energy associated with your body. When your body dies, the "you" dies. We aren't computers with some battery back-up that maintains the energy necessary to save our memories. Once your body dies, that's it.

Now, if they've got some evidence to show someone surviving their own death, I'm all ears.

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27-11-2016, 01:56 PM
RE: What about energy?
(27-11-2016 01:35 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've talked with some new age people who say and think that when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed.....how would you respond to that???

The blind faith is the acceptance without a proof. There is no valid proof of atheism in Wikipedia, correct? Then the theism differs from atheism not in sanity of the people, but in their will to follow the chosen path in life.

The proof of theism is made by me, the Martila, with guidance of the Holy Trinity.
The rejection of this proof by the people, including the theists, is due to their will to be blind. The blindness allows them any moment to "switch the army" for a day or two. "Father, forgive them! Because they do not know, what they are doing!" (Bible).
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27-11-2016, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2016 02:15 PM by Loom.)
RE: What about energy?
You can ignore him ^

What sort of 'energy' and 'creator' do they speak of? Unless they consider the universe is our creator, in which case the matter and energy making up your body is already a part of it; there is no going 'back'.

If that's not what they're talking about, then this special 'energy' should at least be detectable when entering, interacting with, and exiting the body. Otherwise it's indistinguishable from not existing at all.

Hint: it doesn't exist.

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27-11-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: What about energy?
(27-11-2016 01:35 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've talked with some new age people who say and think that when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed.....how would you respond to that???

I don't see the energy in our bodies as being any different from the energy in a campfire or in a battery. It just goes back into the environment and doesn't carry any elements of "the self" with it. I see the self as just a property of a physical brain, and therefore incapable of surviving death.
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27-11-2016, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2016 03:17 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: What about energy?
Energy... in what sense?

There is definitely a materialistic, physical energy, and our body's full of it. We're warm-blooded, we have chemical energy handy that we use to do pretty much everything, and additionally our mass itself consists of energy. When we die we decompose. The thermal energy dissipates. The atoms that make us up eventually spread through decay, usually through scavengers or bacteria. Same for the chemical energy. If we get cremated, the process happens a lot faster.

Do you mean some sort of spirit-energy? If it is measurable, if it can be detected, let's do science to it and actually figure out what it is and what's going on with it and show it to a bunch of other scientists and have them confirm the phenomenon and discover a bunch of things that we missed and prove it to the whole world... rather than just speculating. If it's not measurable, if it can't be detected, then how does anyone know anything about whether it exists and where it goes after death, and how are stories like this any better than made-up lies?

Reliability is tied to proof in more than one respect. Yes, proof helps us confirm the story. But LACK of proof also suggests to us that the people telling us the story didn't bother to confirm it themselves... and neither did the people who told them... and that somewhere along the line, someone just made it up. And it also tells us that all the other people in the chain back to the original myth-weaver cared so little about whether or not what they believed was true, and whether or not what they told other people was true, that they never bothered to check.
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03-12-2016, 10:58 PM
RE: What about energy?
(27-11-2016 01:35 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  ... when we die our energy goes back to our creator....and that matter and energy cannot be destroyed...
Facepalm
That statement is an instance of the fallacy of equivocation. The word "energy" in the phrase "matter and energy cannot be destroyed" refers to the energy that scientists talk about. In the phrase "our energy goes back to our creator" the word refers to something else, something rather nebulous, something I will not attempt to define.

Physical energy, the energy that we talk about in physics class, is the capacity for doing work. More specifically it is the application of a force through a distance. This is demonstrated by the units used to measure energy, viz., Newton-meter (the definition of a Joule) in metric, and foot-pound in the English system. You may object that there are other kinds of energy such a heat energy or solar energy but these can all be explained by force applied through a distance. For example, heat energy is the vibration of molecules through a distance (very small) driven by electromagnetic forces.

The physical energy in our bodies does not go anywhere when we die. It can all be accounted for. If you are talking about some other energy (spiritual energy?) that goes back to our creator when we die, well, that's woo. If you equate the two meanings, that's equivocation. Drinking Beverage

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