What all religions have in common
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03-10-2012, 10:49 AM
What all religions have in common
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The one commonality of all religions is also their Achilles heel, and they know it -- if not consciously then perhaps at a visceral level. That is why they bristle when their world view is challenged. That is why the sin of blasphemy is among the most serious in any religion. No wonder Muslims dislike this guy!

http://www.theofrak.com/2012/10/what-all...ommon.html

www.Theofrak.com - because traditional religion is so frakked up

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03-10-2012, 11:00 AM
RE: What all religions have in common
The only problem is getting each specific religion to realize that about their OWN beliefs. Each of them already knows that the other religions are wrong.

"But mine...mine is different."

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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03-10-2012, 11:23 AM
RE: What all religions have in common
Pretty much...

But wait! My non-religion is different! It's totally new-ish! It's got a gross of 100% of membership in 1985! It's MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

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03-10-2012, 11:42 AM
RE: What all religions have in common
Maybe it's because I'm an optimist and have high hopes for humanity. Maybe it's because I have never been religious. But I tend to agree with the OP's comment.

(maybe some here who have had religious upbringing can confirm or deny my assumption)

I think most religious people know, at least on a subconscious level, that some, or even much, of what they're expected to believe is fundamentally unbelievable. Maybe not all religious people, but I think most of them. I believe this mainly for two reasons:

1. Lack of effort on their part to truly save the non-believers. I use the Train Tracks analogy for this (I first heard it from Penn Gillette but I don't know if it's his idea). If you saw a man standing on train tracks and you could see a train approaching in the distance, you would, as a decent human being, almost certainly try to warn him that he better get off the tracks or he'll die horribly. If his response is "I don't believe in trains so I will stay right here" you would think he's delusional, even crazy, and certainly doomed to a horrible death. What would you do? I think most of us would try to reason with him, beg him, cajole him, demand he gets off the tracks, maybe even push him to safety - anything to save him from his awful fate. I would. What if this man were a relative, a good friend, someone you really cared about, wouldn't you be desperate to save him from an awful death?

But every Christian knows that everyone else is going to burn in hell for ever. Ever. And they hardly lift a finger to save us from that awful fate. OK, so they're brainwashed to not really care. Our choice. Free will. Let got be the judge. But what about their own family, good friends, people they really care about? Still hardly lift a finger.

It doesn't add up, not unless I start from a presupposition that most of them, the ones who do the least to save us from hell, really don't believe that nonsense. Not at a deep, core level. Regardless of how much they try to convince us, convince themselves, that they do.

2. Lack of effort on their part to truly learn the scriptures and live by them. I know that if I truly believed in heaven and hell, in a benevolent wonderful god who will grant me a perfect blissful eternity for dotting my i's and crossing my t's but will condemn me to eternal suffering damnation for getting just some of it wrong, I would make absolutely, totally, positively sure that I knew it all and did it all to get the perfect eternity. Nothing left to chance.

But most of them don't. Most of them can't even hold their end of a decent theological debate because they haven't read their scriptures and don't really care what they say.

I can't reconcile this lack of concern on their part with someone who really truly believes that the afterlife contains only those two absolutes and that their decisions, today, in life, will fully determine which absolute afterlife they get, especially considering it's very heavily weighted to give them the horrible hellish afterlife if they get anything wrong. Not unless I start with the presupposition that, deep down, they know, at some level, that it's all just BS.

I have met some exceptions to this. I think those are the ones who might really truly believe. The rest, I don't think they really fundamentally believe. At least, while they may believe the basic concepts, I don't think they really believe the entire package.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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03-10-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: What all religions have in common
Good thing about that Jesus cat, about coming to fulfill the law rather than change the law? Secret of prophecy is to contain all old law in law. To speak prophecy is to speak first from truth.

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

So, no.

What they fail to get right is to continue to assume anyone can speak for the eternal Tao. That don't happen. That shit comes and finds you, make you fall in love with Gwyneth Paltrow. Big Grin

And dogma. I ain't read no sacred text that said, "don't think." law of god is not - and in no way meant to be - inviolate. It's meant to be a line, the last line one must cross when defining oneself.

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06-10-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: What all religions have in common
You are pretty much right on. I have a deeply religious aunt and uncle. They are believers to the extreme. My wife and I are going to their house for thanksgiving (or at least that had been the plan). My wife is a theist, but a very weak one. She lost a couple of cousins as children to a horrible genetic disorder. It is due to that, that I think she holds onto the belief that there is a god. My aunt and uncle are always quoting the bible and read it constantly as well. My wife on the other hand only seems to believe in god and nothing that is in the bible. She can't stomach being at my aunt and uncle's house for very long. I as an atheist can resist the urge to roll my eyes when they read out of the bible before we can eat, while my wife looks like she might burst into flames at any minute. I find it quite funny.
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07-10-2012, 07:32 AM
RE: What all religions have in common
Religions simplifying.
Religions categorizing.
Religions judging and prejudge.
Religions assuming and guessing.

Religion is the way to choose a path, without knowing and without the willing to gain knowledge.

Live your life blindfolded, only hear the words of your master.

Thats what every religion has to offer and thats what they have in common.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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08-10-2012, 11:51 PM
RE: What all religions have in common
(03-10-2012 11:42 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Maybe it's because I'm an optimist and have high hopes for humanity. Maybe it's because I have never been religious. But I tend to agree with the OP's comment.

(maybe some here who have had religious upbringing can confirm or deny my assumption)

I think most religious people know, at least on a subconscious level, that some, or even much, of what they're expected to believe is fundamentally unbelievable. Maybe not all religious people, but I think most of them. I believe this mainly for two reasons:

1. Lack of effort on their part to truly save the non-believers. I use the Train Tracks analogy for this (I first heard it from Penn Gillette but I don't know if it's his idea). If you saw a man standing on train tracks and you could see a train approaching in the distance, you would, as a decent human being, almost certainly try to warn him that he better get off the tracks or he'll die horribly. If his response is "I don't believe in trains so I will stay right here" you would think he's delusional, even crazy, and certainly doomed to a horrible death. What would you do? I think most of us would try to reason with him, beg him, cajole him, demand he gets off the tracks, maybe even push him to safety - anything to save him from his awful fate. I would. What if this man were a relative, a good friend, someone you really cared about, wouldn't you be desperate to save him from an awful death?

But every Christian knows that everyone else is going to burn in hell for ever. Ever. And they hardly lift a finger to save us from that awful fate. OK, so they're brainwashed to not really care. Our choice. Free will. Let got be the judge. But what about their own family, good friends, people they really care about? Still hardly lift a finger.

It doesn't add up, not unless I start from a presupposition that most of them, the ones who do the least to save us from hell, really don't believe that nonsense. Not at a deep, core level. Regardless of how much they try to convince us, convince themselves, that they do.

2. Lack of effort on their part to truly learn the scriptures and live by them. I know that if I truly believed in heaven and hell, in a benevolent wonderful god who will grant me a perfect blissful eternity for dotting my i's and crossing my t's but will condemn me to eternal suffering damnation for getting just some of it wrong, I would make absolutely, totally, positively sure that I knew it all and did it all to get the perfect eternity. Nothing left to chance.

But most of them don't. Most of them can't even hold their end of a decent theological debate because they haven't read their scriptures and don't really care what they say.

I can't reconcile this lack of concern on their part with someone who really truly believes that the afterlife contains only those two absolutes and that their decisions, today, in life, will fully determine which absolute afterlife they get, especially considering it's very heavily weighted to give them the horrible hellish afterlife if they get anything wrong. Not unless I start with the presupposition that, deep down, they know, at some level, that it's all just BS.

I have met some exceptions to this. I think those are the ones who might really truly believe. The rest, I don't think they really fundamentally believe. At least, while they may believe the basic concepts, I don't think they really believe the entire package.

Well, a lot of it doesn't add up. I'd include the fact that they truly mourn the loss of loved ones, and they try to avoid their own death. No reason to mourn so much if your loved one is actually in heaven and you'll be reunited and live happily ever after, you know?

But yeah, that's why doubt and questioning are frowned upon so much: because they know it's a sham, and you're not allowed to say so out loud.

When I was a kid, I pretty much considered it play-acting, and on the same level as when people put out cookies and milk for Santa Claus. Except it's a lot grimmer and more disturbing and dangerous than Santa.

As a lifelong nonbeliever, it is hard for me to even imagine the cognitive dissonance that must be happening in some people's heads.
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