What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
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28-02-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
I'm curious what criteria you're using to define pro-religion, can you explain?

Also, I think you've come here at a very interesting and somewhat strange time (but in my experience here, what time hasn't been interesting? lol). I haven't really seen a pro-religion vibe on these boards- at least not in a way that I'd define being for religion.
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28-02-2012, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 05:39 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm curious what criteria you're using to define pro-religion, can you explain?

To my fallible memory, I haven't read one word from any atheists here that is pro-religion. I mock it openly. So does just about every atheist here. But there is a huge difference between mocking religion and being cruel to the people who believe in it. KC is a good example. His theology is nutty, but your ad hominen attacks are not only disgustingly rude, but entirely ineffective. What would be effective is reasonable discussion. That's what brought me here. Your behavior, TT, is little different than a Fundamentalist of any religion. I am starting to wonder when you're going to start fire-bombing churches. That does nothing but rally people to oppose a cause. If you can't have reasonable, civil discussions with people, I don't see why you're part of a Discussion Forum.

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28-02-2012, 05:36 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:22 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 05:13 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Since when has atheism been a movement?.

Why shouldn't it have a purpose? I could see atheism as a revolutionary campaign towards peace and unity through logic and reason.

If there is an atheist movement, I think it's only goal is and should be to ensure equal rights and respect of the atheist position.

I don't see atheism as being a stance of any kind with logic or reason... Those are not connected to atheism in definition. I know some people are against free-thought or secular humanism efforts because they claim it's just disguising the atheism behind it, but to me, the definition actually matters for the intent of a movement.
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28-02-2012, 05:40 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:25 PM)kineo Wrote:  I get the feeling that you're using this article to justify your overly-aggressive behavior on these boards.... but hopefully I'm wrong.

I won't lie to ya. There is some truth there. Still don't think I was all that overly aggressive, but the majority here think so.
For that I do feel bad but am still one of Hitchens puppies. (even if I am the runt of the litter)
Just trying to light a fire under ya'll to get more of you on the throttle.

(28-02-2012 05:25 PM)kineo Wrote:  Those goals are great: ... What kinds of things would you suggest that interested people do to move forward on these types of goals?

We as Atheists, DO need to set an agenda.
A Call to Arms?
Well yes, and become louder and (I know I know) much MORE aggressive!



.

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28-02-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:22 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Why shouldn't it have a purpose? I could see atheism as a revolutionary campaign towards peace and unity through logic and reason.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god nothing more, How can a movement be based on nothing more than a lack of belief in a higher power? When its the only thing all atheists share.
The only way that would work would be if all atheists had the same sense of Reason, logic, ethics, justice etc, I find it hard to believe we all do, not everyone thinks alike, even atheists.

Don't get me wrong the idea of humanity uniting, bringing about world peace and logic and reason being used to improve life for all humans, is something i want.
Instead of using fairy story's to justify horrific acts and persecution which many of the religious groups are guilty of.

Its seems unlikely that a lack of belief would be enough to bring any of that on.

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28-02-2012, 05:54 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 05:55 PM by kineo.)
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
A call to arms is nice and all (sorry I can't watch the video here at work), but doesn't there have to be some actual action? And not violent action, I should hope...

Activism is not my purpose here on these forums. I'm just not at that place, having recognized myself as an atheist only within the last year. I'm still looking to learn about my atheism, deal with my religious past, and discuss things related. The original reason I went looking and found this place was because I had questions on morality. And I found a treasure trove in this place!

But if you want a call to arms, you have to be ready and willing to do something once everyone is called to arms. Please forgive me if that's discussed in the video, but since I can't watch it here, if the "do something" is discussed in the video can you spell it out here?

Does it include things like rallies, local politics, protests, etc.? That's the sort of action that gets things done- not ranting and alienating people on message boards.
(28-02-2012 05:48 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Don't get me wrong the idea of humanity uniting, bringing about world peace and logic and reason being used to improve life for all humans, is something i want.
Instead of using fairy story's to justify horrific acts and persecution which many of the religious groups are guilty of.

Its seems unlikely that a lack of belief would be enough to bring any of that on.

It seems to me that secular humanism is the actual movement. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
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28-02-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm curious what criteria you're using to define pro-religion, can you explain?

Also, I think you've come here at a very interesting and somewhat strange time (but in my experience here, what time hasn't been interesting? lol). I haven't really seen a pro-religion vibe on these boards- at least not in a way that I'd define being for religion.

You right, it may just be my perception. I look to the hateful and deceitful nature of all religion and I include any and all proponents of its insidious and dishonest nature.

Anyone who is implicitly acquiescent toward religion OR any proponents of it, I look upon as pro-religious, however tacit that support may be.

Just my point of view.. it's not club rules or anything Smile
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28-02-2012, 06:02 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 05:56 PM)Sol Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 05:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm curious what criteria you're using to define pro-religion, can you explain?

Also, I think you've come here at a very interesting and somewhat strange time (but in my experience here, what time hasn't been interesting? lol). I haven't really seen a pro-religion vibe on these boards- at least not in a way that I'd define being for religion.

You right, it may just be my perception. I look to the hateful and deceitful nature of all religion and I include any and all proponents of its insidious and dishonest nature.

Anyone who is implicitly acquiescent toward religion OR any proponents of it, I look upon as pro-religious, however tacit that support may be.

Just my point of view.. it's not club rules or anything Smile

You won't find many here that don't dislike religion or who don't despise the damage it has caused throughout history.

I suppose I'm a little more open to discussion because my entire family is religious and some of my friends are too and much of my history has been. It would not be reasonable or logical to reject them on that basis. I feel the same for anyone new I meet, on these boards or otherwise. I can discuss some religious theology on that level because I have been so heavily steeped in it for much of my life. That does not mean I think it's a positive force in the world. How to proceed from there is apparently the subject of debate around here lately.
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28-02-2012, 06:08 PM
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
I dislike religion too, but ranting and raving angrily about it doesn't do much good from my experience.

I remember hearing people like you when I was a theist, and I could easily dismiss you as lacking an understanding of my theology or simply being angry.

If you want to convert a theist, you should plant the seed of doubt and let it grow, while setting an example of how one can live a happy and well-adjusted life as an atheist.

I bet more people have been de-converted by learning about their own religion than listening to Hitchens. Tongue
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28-02-2012, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 06:45 PM by Sol.)
RE: What are the goal of the Atheist Movement?
(28-02-2012 06:08 PM)Ben Wrote:  I dislike religion too, but ranting and raving angrily about it doesn't do much good from my experience.

Then our experiences differ which could be because I don't just dislike religion

(28-02-2012 06:08 PM)Ben Wrote:  I remember hearing people like you when I was a theist, and I could easily dismiss you as lacking an understanding of my theology or simply being angry.

I apologise if this isn't directed at me.. but I'm sure you couldn't know what I'm like.
And I understand theology, just depends what flavour your kool-aid was..

(28-02-2012 06:08 PM)Ben Wrote:  If you want to convert a theist, you should plant the seed of doubt and let it grow, while setting an example of how one can live a happy and well-adjusted life as an atheist.

How can I have a happy and well adjusted life when I have to be accommodating to all the superstition and voodoo that pervades it.

(28-02-2012 06:08 PM)Ben Wrote:  I bet more people have been de-converted by learning about their own religion than listening to Hitchens. Tongue

Very true, but simply noticing crass stupidity isn't that far up the learning curve is it ?


(28-02-2012 06:02 PM)kineo Wrote:  You won't find many here that don't dislike religion or who don't despise the damage it has caused throughout history.

I suppose I'm a little more open to discussion because my entire family is religious and some of my friends are too and much of my history has been. It would not be reasonable or logical to reject them on that basis. I feel the same for anyone new I meet, on these boards or otherwise. I can discuss some religious theology on that level because I have been so heavily steeped in it for much of my life. That does not mean I think it's a positive force in the world. How to proceed from there is apparently the subject of debate around here lately.

Oh I'm open to discussion, but there are rules for discussion, intellectual honesty would be paramount followed by reasoned and logical debate. I too have religious friends and family, but I do not cut them any slack when it comes to their particular delusional WAG.
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