What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
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06-11-2012, 12:29 AM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
Is it even right for us to ask this question? Are our ways and deeds not bad? Yes, there is God and God is love. We need love inside us before we can know of its existence. An informational article here- http://www.worldtransformation.com/is-there-a-god/ might be of help to non believers.
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06-11-2012, 01:11 AM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
In all fairness, Topsy may be a spam bot. But you know me, I'm terrible at moderating because some bots are the most entertaining things we get on this forum.

Take the above link for example. I seriously doubt that the article was written by an actual biologist. Mostly, because the grammar and composition is so unbelievably bad. It looks like the world's longest game of Mad Libs.

God is adjective, adjective and adjective which is expletive on a noun.

THAT... and of course, the classic give away of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about: quoting Bible scripture as applicable evidence to anything.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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10-11-2012, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2012 04:44 PM by Luminon.)
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
Sorry for wall o' text, I have this window open for a week and sometimes write in an idea or two and I really need to post it or it will swallow even more of my time.

I am wary of all absolutes. I can not imagine an absolute God, specially not omnipotent, perfect, omniscient. That's meaningless and impossible, such a thing can not exist in our universe of imperfections and relativity. If it exists at all, then it's extremely distant in all meanings and totally useless to us.

The God question doesn't make much sense to me. These people assume that of all the higher and greater things and causes above us, the creator of the universe is just above our roof. I'd say believers assign him the good attributes just to win his favor. They imagine a bigger version of themselves and then glorify it with latin words that they vaguely remember are superlatives or absolutes of something. "Here's a big foreign word, I don't know what it means, but my God will love it!"

I can appreciate the deist idea of a non-interfering God or atheistic idea of a non-existent one. But there are also natural forces that permeate and create everything that exists - and these are also a good divine candidate. This is why I don't like being asked if I'm an atheist or not, because that assumes much more than I assume about God. Do I believe in things, beings, orders and systems greater or more perfect than myself? Yes, from things like a nation to more occult concepts. But at no point I start calling them God. At most, I'd say I believe in a quality of progressive (or even regressive) divinity, that gets manifested at an increased rate, if things do correctly their jobs. If I ever use the G word, then it sort of mean totality of all universe's energy and natural laws, in this process.

Many people tried to get a definite statement of faith or non-faith out of me. Basically, are you an atheist so we can be buddies, or are you one of these indoctrinated believers to be pitied for having no brain? I couldn't oblige them properly, because they asked a wrong question. Belief is supposed to be something we care about and I have a plenty of beliefs which I basically don't care about. So here's what I care about, a statement of faith, that should satisfy most. You tell me, am I religious?

I believe in a quality of "divinity". What is it like? You could call it a step closer towards perfection, a cyclical and gradual improvement or progress, but in any conceivable area of human activity, social, economic, artistic, even daily life. There are some human qualities that we call vices or virtues, depending on what degree of perfection they're expressed. No absolute perfection is practically possible, so "divinity" must be understood as a direction of development, a pointer, not a thing.
Divinity is gradually evolved (developed) and in a "Plan", which is a way of least resistance to manifest that divinity by building the kinds of forms that express it better and abandoning old forms. The Plan is a cyclical process and relies on given major waypoint achievements of opportunitity, not on pre-destination of everything. Thus we have a free will, though limited by external circumstances and our own lack of discipline. Free will is essential for the Plan, any imposed development against a decided free will is destined to be rejected and fall back into chaos. We are not forced to fulfill the Plan, it's "only" in our and everything's best interest and we are by far not the only ones who are trying to fulfill it, so let's not be jerks and help them out. The further we get from these waypoints / achievements / opportunities or the more we miss them, the rougher our situation gets and vice versa. I think I can glimpse the progress of Plan, at least as far as humanity is concerned, though describing it is harder. Chances are, you know what it means, most notably cooperation instead of competition where it matters. It also means that currently humanity stands just in front of a very large waypoint, probably the greatest there ever was and it is probably a question of life and death, we can only do things as we did them (and destroy ourselves) or change radically all we do, challenging such basic concepts as unlimited exclusive ownership or the necessity to work to enoy full standard of living.
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10-11-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(10-11-2012 04:13 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Sorry for wall o' text, I have this window open for a week and sometimes write in an idea or two and I really need to post it or it will swallow even more of my time.

I am wary of all absolutes. I can not imagine an absolute God, specially not omnipotent, perfect, omniscient. That's meaningless and impossible, such a thing can not exist in our universe of imperfections and relativity. If it exists at all, then it's extremely distant in all meanings and totally useless to us.

The God question doesn't make much sense to me. These people assume that of all the higher and greater things and causes above us, the creator of the universe is just above our roof. I'd say believers assign him the good attributes just to win his favor. They imagine a bigger version of themselves and then glorify it with latin words that they vaguely remember are superlatives or absolutes of something. "Here's a big foreign word, I don't know what it means, but my God will love it!"

I can appreciate the deist idea of a non-interfering God or atheistic idea of a non-existent one. But there are also natural forces that permeate and create everything that exists - and these are also a good divine candidate. This is why I don't like being asked if I'm an atheist or not, because that assumes much more than I assume about God. Do I believe in things, beings, orders and systems greater or more perfect than myself? Yes, from things like a nation to more occult concepts. But at no point I start calling them God. At most, I'd say I believe in a quality of progressive (or even regressive) divinity, that gets manifested at an increased rate, if things do correctly their jobs. If I ever use the G word, then it sort of mean totality of all universe's energy and natural laws, in this process.

Many people tried to get a definite statement of faith or non-faith out of me. Basically, are you an atheist so we can be buddies, or are you one of these indoctrinated believers to be pitied for having no brain? I couldn't oblige them properly, because they asked a wrong question. Belief is supposed to be something we care about and I have a plenty of beliefs which I basically don't care about. So here's what I care about, a statement of faith, that should satisfy most. You tell me, am I religious?

I believe in a quality of "divinity". What is it like? You could call it a step closer towards perfection, a cyclical and gradual improvement or progress, but in any conceivable area of human activity, social, economic, artistic, even daily life. There are some human qualities that we call vices or virtues, depending on what degree of perfection they're expressed. No absolute perfection is practically possible, so "divinity" must be understood as a direction of development, a pointer, not a thing.
Divinity is gradually evolved (developed) and in a "Plan", which is a way of least resistance to manifest that divinity by building the kinds of forms that express it better and abandoning old forms. The Plan is a cyclical process and relies on given major waypoint achievements of opportunitity, not on pre-destination of everything. Thus we have a free will, though limited by external circumstances and our own lack of discipline. Free will is essential for the Plan, any imposed development against a decided free will is destined to be rejected and fall back into chaos. We are not forced to fulfill the Plan, it's "only" in our and everything's best interest and we are by far not the only ones who are trying to fulfill it, so let's not be jerks and help them out. The further we get from these waypoints / achievements / opportunities or the more we miss them, the rougher our situation gets and vice versa. I think I can glimpse the progress of Plan, at least as far as humanity is concerned, though describing it is harder. Chances are, you know what it means, most notably cooperation instead of competition where it matters. It also means that currently humanity stands just in front of a very large waypoint, probably the greatest there ever was and it is probably a question of life and death, we can only do things as we did them (and destroy ourselves) or change radically all we do, challenging such basic concepts as unlimited exclusive ownership or the necessity to work to enoy full standard of living.
I think you maybe a agnostic pantheist. I have spoke with pagans they have similar concepts. It is not unlike what even some Wiccans and other "witches" believe. From my perspective some of these folks see God as nothing more than a collective consciousness of everything and everyone. Some believe the same thing but do not regard that consciousness as God. Others still are mono-theists and see God as having a feminine and masculine side which most "witches" split in-twain.

In short some pagans are monotheists, some duo-theists, some pantheists, and others still atheists.

Also "can not" should be "cannot" Smile

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10-11-2012, 06:07 PM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(06-11-2012 12:29 AM)topsy Wrote:  Is it even right for us to ask this question? Are our ways and deeds not bad? Yes, there is God and God is love. We need love inside us before we can know of its existence. An informational article here- http://www.worldtransformation.com/is-there-a-god/ might be of help to non believers.
Who said we needed help?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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10-11-2012, 06:22 PM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(10-11-2012 06:07 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(06-11-2012 12:29 AM)topsy Wrote:  Is it even right for us to ask this question? Are our ways and deeds not bad? Yes, there is God and God is love. We need love inside us before we can know of its existence. An informational article here- http://www.worldtransformation.com/is-there-a-god/ might be of help to non believers.
Who said we needed help?

Don't want no help, gonna work this shit myself.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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10-11-2012, 06:54 PM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(06-11-2012 12:29 AM)topsy Wrote:  Is it even right for us to ask this question? Are our ways and deeds not bad? Yes, there is God and God is love. We need love inside us before we can know of its existence. An informational article here- http://www.worldtransformation.com/is-there-a-god/ might be of help to non believers.
So you are saying that god is a chemically driven emotion?



... One post huh? Drive by theist?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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10-11-2012, 11:49 PM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(07-09-2012 02:06 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  When people ask me what I am religiously, I always first ask them to define God. But definitions are different from religion to religion or even person to person.

If a God (or Goddess) is all all-knowing, all powerful deity and the creator of everything then I am an atheist.

If a God (or Goddess) is just a creator of our universe, that is not all knowing and all powerful I would say I a doubtful agnostic or atheist agnostic.

If Gods (or Goddesses) are simply beings that are much more powerful than we are, sufficiently more advanced than us humans I would say I am a hopeful agnostic or perhaps a 'pagan agnostic'.

What I am to you is completely dependent on a simple, agreed upon definition.

Of course there are combinations that I have left out, because I have not come across anyone who believes in a supernatural being that for example is all powerful but doesn't know everything.

If I am wrong, and there is an all knowing, all powerful God then free-will is an illusion, which means God made me a non-believer so he/she/it can't be upset with me, only his/her/its self. If God is angry at me for it then I judge it evil (which again I was fated to do) and wouldn't want to worship it anyway.

Whats your 2 cents?
You have raised some interesting issues.
To most people God is the phenomenon (often viewed in human form) that entails the highest/ultimate aspect of
knowledge and goodness.This view holds God within the views of human beings, and the particular religion that has evolved via what has been held as coming from the inspiration of God.

I would suggest that this viewpoint denigrates any notion of higher metaphysical beings within an infinite Universe.
Atheists tend not only to deny the Christian God, they also suggest that phenomena not amenable to the scientific method, is unworthy of consideration, while Darwinian evolution is a fact, and that's that.

As for beings higher than humanity.....why not? Unfortunately religious groups demand God to fit human criteria, including 'perfect goodness' and thus lock themselves into a rigid position that demands thoughtless obedience.

For many years I have considered the issue of an ever evolving force of cosmic goodness, where an absolute truth would be counter intuitive to the very nature of God seen as a perpetually changing force, in which degrees of goodness and badness would lead to a counterbalancing that continually enhanced nature, and not unlike the theory of evolution.

As for personal identity and the continuation of such, as in the Christian, Islamic, and Jewish models, I find this remote.
On the other hand, the material world as a place of experience and learning (even creating) for things beyond our present understanding,might have some esoteric nexus beyond a purely one life scenario.

In Thank God for Evolution,highly supported by a bevy of cosmologists,Michael Dowd, a Christian minister of sorts, attempts to create some sort of synthesis with Nature/God without speculating about 'afterlives' an issue probably best left alone anyway.
As for 'our part', somehow within the great mysteries of the cosmos, there is always room for speculation.
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11-11-2012, 12:22 AM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
(06-11-2012 01:11 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  In all fairness, Topsy may be a spam bot. But you know me, I'm terrible at moderating because some bots are the most entertaining things we get on this forum.

Take the above link for example. I seriously doubt that the article was written by an actual biologist. Mostly, because the grammar and composition is so unbelievably bad. It looks like the world's longest game of Mad Libs.

God is adjective, adjective and adjective which is expletive on a noun.

THAT... and of course, the classic give away of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about: quoting Bible scripture as applicable evidence to anything.
He is an Australian biologist according to Wikepedia.
He was involved for several years trying to track down the thylacine or Tasmanian devil.
His interests appear quite diverse and include R.D. Laing.
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11-11-2012, 12:35 AM
RE: What are you really? (What or Who is God?)
Well shit, sorry guys, we dropped the ball down here on that...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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