What are your taxes going towards?
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18-05-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(18-05-2013 02:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Where did my tax dollars go?

That's all well and good for W-2 money but it isn't representative of other forms of income.

For instance, a man can work for 35 years at one W-2 job and pay exactly what you're link says, and another man can work for the same 35 years as a real estate investor, earning the same amount of money but only paying social security taxes... owing to real estate deductions and other legal tax avoidance mechanisms.

And the really shitty part of that whole ordeal is that the investor can keep on earning that same amount of money and taking all those deductions every year until he dies AND he can claim maximum social security benefits after he becomes eligible.

The W-2 guy, on the other hand, is denied a significant amount of his social security benefits if, after he retires, he takes another W-2 job.

Lemme ask you... who do you think NEEDS both the full social security benefit AND another job in order to meet his monthly expenses?

The state calls that taking care of the working class.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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18-05-2013, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2013 03:09 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(18-05-2013 02:15 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(18-05-2013 02:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Where did my tax dollars go?

That's all well and good for W-2 money but it isn't representative of other forms of income.

It's not even representative of W2-money 'cause it assumes a standard deduction instead of itemized deductions. But it's still useful for ballpark purposes.

(18-05-2013 02:15 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  For instance, a man can work for 35 years at one W-2 job and pay exactly what you're link says, and another man can work for the same 35 years as a real estate investor, earning the same amount of money but only paying social security taxes...

You mean Social Security and and Medicare taxes, of course. The real problem in my view is how we define "income". The poor bastard who works for a living primarily makes only income while the investor class make like no income and it's all capital gains. Why capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate than income, I dunno. Some bullshit about "job creators" is all I hear. But the investment class ain't "job creators", they're just sophisticated gamblers. The small business owners are the "job creators" but very few of them are rich bastards making more than $250K/year (like ~3%) worried about higher income tax rates. And the investments they're making are in developing their own company, not playing the stock market.

(18-05-2013 02:15 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  The W-2 guy, on the other hand, is denied a significant amount of his social security benefits if, after he retires, he takes another W-2 job. ... The state calls that taking care of the working class.

Yup. The double-dipping penalty needs to be reexamined. It has been brought up many times in our legislative bodies but nothing ever comes of it.

(18-05-2013 02:15 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Lemme ask you... who do you think NEEDS both the full social security benefit AND another job in order to meet his monthly expenses?

Depends what you mean by "NEEDS". If I wait until I'm 70 yo I'd qualify for the maximum benefit of $3,350/month or some $40K/year. At this point in me and ManlyGirl's life that would be woefully insufficient. But old fart Zatamon and his wife live quite happily on like a quarter of that. I also got an IRA (they call it the TSP in the feddie gooberment) which has a shot at being worth over $1M ten years from now (it's like $600K now) when I would first start to think of retiring. And I get a pension worth like 1% per year of service but with no upper bound. My current plan is to work 101 years of service so that I know at that point I'm losing money by working. ... To directly answer your question, I'd say most, if not almost all of 'em. Tongue

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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19-05-2013, 08:09 AM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(18-05-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  You mean you guys don't know the USA is funding terrorism in Syria? Let me guess, you guys are going to want proof, I post proof then you guys say its not enough. Guessing right so far?

I'm just genuinely curious. How is the USA funding Syrian terrorists? More to the point, WHY? In what world is that beneficial to American interests?

Is the situation in Syria a fucking mess? Yes. The original rebel coalition - mostly united and mostly secular - has long since collapsed. There are now, minimum, six sets of groups aligned on religious and ethnic grounds (shia muslim and sunni muslim, alawites, druze, christians, and kurds); there are still secular groups; there are Gulf Council-backed groups, Iranian-backed groups... Which is the other point I was making. Who are the Americans funding? Which group? How long has it been happening? How much is changing hands (just money, or supplies as well)?

You might not believe me, but convincing evidence would, er, convince me.
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19-05-2013, 05:29 PM
What are your taxes going towards?
(19-05-2013 08:09 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-05-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  You mean you guys don't know the USA is funding terrorism in Syria? Let me guess, you guys are going to want proof, I post proof then you guys say its not enough. Guessing right so far?

I'm just genuinely curious. How is the USA funding Syrian terrorists? More to the point, WHY? In what world is that beneficial to American interests?

Is the situation in Syria a fucking mess? Yes. The original rebel coalition - mostly united and mostly secular - has long since collapsed. There are now, minimum, six sets of groups aligned on religious and ethnic grounds (shia muslim and sunni muslim, alawites, druze, christians, and kurds); there are still secular groups; there are Gulf Council-backed groups, Iranian-backed groups... Which is the other point I was making. Who are the Americans funding? Which group? How long has it been happening? How much is changing hands (just money, or supplies as well)?

You might not believe me, but convincing evidence would, er, convince me.

The only way I can convince you online is to post articles....would that suffice?
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19-05-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
Do they have sources of their own from say, government records or statements? Or the records of extra-governmental organisations which reside outside of governmental faculties?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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19-05-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(19-05-2013 05:29 PM)I and I Wrote:  The only way I can convince you online is to post articles....would that suffice?

It might not convince me - but I'd definitely be interested in what's convinced you.

I could believe that there are American "military advisors" on the ground in Syria (there are definitely Russians there...). I could believe that the US is trying to support certain rebel groups (though even now they're less open than some European countries about declaring the National Coalition the "rightful government of the Syrian people" or however they've phrased it...). I could even - and this is really pushing it - believe that some of it is happening without the one hand knowing what the other is doing (regardless of whether said ignorance is willful or otherwise, from parts of the administration).
Consider
I would have a very hard time believing they're handing out ARs like candy to whatever reactionary fascist militia promises to stir shit up (as the un-elaborated-upon video in the OP [from RT for fuck's sake], and a couple of your remarks elsewhere, would seem to imply).
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20-05-2013, 05:55 PM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(19-05-2013 06:49 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-05-2013 05:29 PM)I and I Wrote:  The only way I can convince you online is to post articles....would that suffice?

It might not convince me - but I'd definitely be interested in what's convinced you.

I could believe that there are American "military advisors" on the ground in Syria (there are definitely Russians there...). I could believe that the US is trying to support certain rebel groups (though even now they're less open than some European countries about declaring the National Coalition the "rightful government of the Syrian people" or however they've phrased it...). I could even - and this is really pushing it - believe that some of it is happening without the one hand knowing what the other is doing (regardless of whether said ignorance is willful or otherwise, from parts of the administration).
Consider
I would have a very hard time believing they're handing out ARs like candy to whatever reactionary fascist militia promises to stir shit up (as the un-elaborated-upon video in the OP [from RT for fuck's sake], and a couple of your remarks elsewhere, would seem to imply).

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/28/...-in-syria/

And the links:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/...fact_hersh
These were plans in 2007

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/2...4U20120727 2012

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...ebels?lite 2012

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...agreb.html

The New York Times in its article, "Arms Airlift to Syria Rebels Expands, With C.I.A. Aid
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/world/...wanted=all

Islamist Rebels Create Dilemma on Syria Policy," the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/world/...wanted=all
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21-05-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
Thanks for the links.

The only firm conclusions I can draw from that are that western governments are, like anyone, trying
to support the least objectionable side in a messy civil war. Was there anything further you took from it?

It's actually because they didn't do anything immediately (two years ago!) that the situation has deteriorated to such a degree. The inital protests and opposition were broad, and not tied to any particular faith or ideology. Once things started coming apart, radical islamic groups moved in (Shiite militia from Lebanon and Sunni militia from Iraq, mostly, though there are some from farther afield). And now we've got, well, what we've got now.

Syria and Iran were never friends (hardcore Shiites don't much care for Alawites, either!), but Assad et al aren't idiots, so they'll take what they can get (namely, Iranian aid). Israel isn't run by idiots either, though, so it's not like they're going to be intentionally supporting groups who don't believe in their right to exist (their enemy's enemies are most definitely not their friends).

Much of the humanitarian aid that is sent is seized by various armed groups. Even the military aid, I'd assume (though small arms are kinda irrelevant versus artillery, airstrikes, and chemical weapons). That's what comes with a situation this messy: some of what 'we' [insert whatever involved government you happen to be affiliated with, if any] send is going to go astray. The alternative is to do nothing and leave the (wholly innocent) Syrian people to continued, unmitigated, and abject suffering. In that situation I'd say it is still right to try to do something.

Though, if you've got an argument to raise or a point to make -- sensationalist nonsense from Russia Today (Where Journalism Goes to Die™) isn't the way to do it.
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21-05-2013, 11:26 AM
RE: What are your taxes going towards?
(21-05-2013 10:45 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Thanks for the links.

The only firm conclusions I can draw from that are that western governments are, like anyone, trying
to support the least objectionable side in a messy civil war. Was there anything further you took from it?

It's actually because they didn't do anything immediately (two years ago!) that the situation has deteriorated to such a degree. The inital protests and opposition were broad, and not tied to any particular faith or ideology. Once things started coming apart, radical islamic groups moved in (Shiite militia from Lebanon and Sunni militia from Iraq, mostly, though there are some from farther afield). And now we've got, well, what we've got now.

Syria and Iran were never friends (hardcore Shiites don't much care for Alawites, either!), but Assad et al aren't idiots, so they'll take what they can get (namely, Iranian aid). Israel isn't run by idiots either, though, so it's not like they're going to be intentionally supporting groups who don't believe in their right to exist (their enemy's enemies are most definitely not their friends).

Much of the humanitarian aid that is sent is seized by various armed groups. Even the military aid, I'd assume (though small arms are kinda irrelevant versus artillery, airstrikes, and chemical weapons). That's what comes with a situation this messy: some of what 'we' [insert whatever involved government you happen to be affiliated with, if any] send is going to go astray. The alternative is to do nothing and leave the (wholly innocent) Syrian people to continued, unmitigated, and abject suffering. In that situation I'd say it is still right to try to do something.

Though, if you've got an argument to raise or a point to make -- sensationalist nonsense from Russia Today (Where Journalism Goes to Die™) isn't the way to do it.


Which link did you enjoy the most?

The first one is an article by Seymour Hersh from 2007 mentioning the new U.S. policy against Iran. One of these methods would be to fund sunni extremists (Look up alqaeda) to destroy Syria. They are well on their way to doing that now.

The U.S. has been funding and arming rebels for quite some time, however these rebels are sunni extremists (alqaeda) in fact in one of the articles i posted a U.S. official admits that nowhere in Syrian opposition is there a secular fighting force.

Israel is recently helping the sunni extremists in Syria, there are reports now that Israeli weapons are being captured. Israel and the U.S. right now, know that the rebels are no match for the Syrian military, so right now their goal is to just let Syria spin into chaos.

Oh btw, Hezbollah is now heavily engaging the syrian rebels as well. The current campaign as were the previous by the Syrian military is to secure the towns that the weapons and fighters have been coming through. As the Syrian army has been doing this for the past 9 months you see desperation by the sunni extremists, so they just send some arab redneck to blow up civilian targets.

Hezbollah remember, couldn't even be defeated by the Israelis. So yeah, Hezbollah in Lebanon is working with Syrian military on cleaning up alqaeda....oh I mean sunni extremists out of border cities and stopping the flow of weapons. Now the west wants to talk with the Syrian government. Rolleyes
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