What are your thoughts on communism?
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01-03-2015, 10:56 PM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
I believe in journalism.

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02-03-2015, 02:40 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 02:49 AM by rezider.)
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(01-03-2015 06:08 PM)Blackout Wrote:  Dictatorship of the proletariat never happened in practice, the USSR was socialist but not communist. Marx didn't defend a single party system.

Socialism is anti-capitalist but not necessarily pro-communism. A socialist can envision his ideology as the ultimate goal or as a means to achieve communism. Those are the only two definitions of socialism that exist to date (I'm excluding National-Socialism from Adolf Hitler). The USSR had strong socialistic traits and structures, but it was never communist to begin with. Despite the name, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't literally a dictatorship or single party system, it is based on the will of the working class. This is all theory, of course

Quote:Good idea in theory, if you ignore human nature. Doesn't succeed because human psychology doesn't work that way.
Good idea in practice as long as people don't have the opportunity to refuse the -ism.

Those are some good points.

Communism has never existed. The USSR didn't practice communism nor did any other country. The socialistic traits and structures were leaning towards communism but at this current point in time (as most of the others said: 'human nature') it cannot be done.

Human nature is not an argument. I don't know what human nature is, so if you guys have it figured out, let me know. If there are people who can come up with these ideas, there should also be people who are willing to practice them. We need to grow morally to the point where greed, lust, desire for power over others etc. are gone. But that doesn't mean that 'human nature' (whatever that is) is the cause. People can change.

The idea of communism itself is a bright one and it's good in practice. This is where subjectivity kicks in. People think it won't work, because it has never been done in its purest form. Dictatorship is not part of the plan; not in this sense.

I have to agree though: on a big scale, take the USA for example, communism would not be able to succeed. Atleast not without the strong push of a dictator. On the other hand it is possible for it to work just fine in smaller countries.

Would be nice to finally see people living together.

Never the less, there are no bad practices in communism, just bad realization.

"I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way." - Carl Sagan
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02-03-2015, 05:14 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
Seems like the Christian thing to do.

Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-03-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(01-03-2015 10:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-03-2015 06:41 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  In theory it could work. However, I don't really think any nation has ever adopted a real communist practice. Russia, cambodia and others have all deviated from it in some major way.

RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

CAMBODIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. The government takes both of them and shoots you.

PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

Than again, it could not work if your country does not have enough money and has too many people. It could be an ideal government for smaller countries but horrible for larger ones; or not. Communism is not a threat, dangerous dictators are!

REALISTIC COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk, except for the milk you hide from your neighbor and sell on the black market.

Sounds like modern Christianity. (Christianism).

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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02-03-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(02-03-2015 02:40 AM)rezider Wrote:  
(01-03-2015 06:08 PM)Blackout Wrote:  Dictatorship of the proletariat never happened in practice, the USSR was socialist but not communist. Marx didn't defend a single party system.

Socialism is anti-capitalist but not necessarily pro-communism. A socialist can envision his ideology as the ultimate goal or as a means to achieve communism. Those are the only two definitions of socialism that exist to date (I'm excluding National-Socialism from Adolf Hitler). The USSR had strong socialistic traits and structures, but it was never communist to begin with. Despite the name, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't literally a dictatorship or single party system, it is based on the will of the working class. This is all theory, of course

Good idea in practice as long as people don't have the opportunity to refuse the -ism.

Those are some good points.

Communism has never existed. The USSR didn't practice communism nor did any other country. The socialistic traits and structures were leaning towards communism but at this current point in time (as most of the others said: 'human nature') it cannot be done.

Human nature is not an argument. I don't know what human nature is, so if you guys have it figured out, let me know. If there are people who can come up with these ideas, there should also be people who are willing to practice them. We need to grow morally to the point where greed, lust, desire for power over others etc. are gone. But that doesn't mean that 'human nature' (whatever that is) is the cause. People can change.

The idea of communism itself is a bright one and it's good in practice. This is where subjectivity kicks in. People think it won't work, because it has never been done in its purest form. Dictatorship is not part of the plan; not in this sense.

I have to agree though: on a big scale, take the USA for example, communism would not be able to succeed. Atleast not without the strong push of a dictator. On the other hand it is possible for it to work just fine in smaller countries.

Would be nice to finally see people living together.

Never the less, there are no bad practices in communism, just bad realization.

Utopias are impossible at their very core because one person's heaven is another person's hell.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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02-03-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(01-03-2015 07:19 PM)Blackout Wrote:  @One, I'm actually interested in knowing the scientific basis for humans wanting more. I don't understand why some people genuinely refuse more and others want it at all cost. Is it cultural or biological?

Nature versus nurture. Nature says "take what you can to help your kin". Nurture (usually) says "share with those who are less fortunate".

(01-03-2015 07:19 PM)Blackout Wrote:  I'm a meritocrat

I have no idea what that means. I also recommend you don't attempt to summarize your political views in one word unless you agree with all the things associated with that word. Saying "I'm this, but even though this is against that, I don't think that is so bad" means you're not "this".

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02-03-2015, 07:16 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(02-03-2015 07:02 AM)One Above All Wrote:  ...
(01-03-2015 07:19 PM)Blackout Wrote:  I'm a meritocrat

I have no idea what that means.
...

Definition of MERITOCRACY.
1 : a system in which the talented are chosen and moved ahead on the basis of their achievement.
2 : leadership selected on the basis of intellectual criteria.

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02-03-2015, 07:17 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
@Rezider makes a good point. I deny communism for many reasons, but saying that it's just an utopia is a weak argument. There's many reasons why communism is flawed, but human nature is not one of them. Human nature is the same argument justified to keep ultra-capitalism, so I can't agree with that.

Quote:Nature versus nurture. Nature says "take what you can to help your kin". Nurture (usually) says "share with those who are less fortunate".
Why not both? You still didn't answer my question. Human nature supposedly is anti-communist. But why is it that I see capitalism bringing up the worst that there is in human nature, like greed and lack of empathy?
Quote:I have no idea what that means. I also recommend you don't attempt to summarize your political views in one word unless you agree with all the things associated with that word. Saying "I'm this, but even though this is against that, I don't think that is so bad" means you're not "this".
Nice try, but I didn't say I was exclusively a meritocrat. I think meritocracy can bring lots of benefits, but my political views are not summed up merely by that. Saying I am X doesn't mean I agree 100% with everything associated with the ideology. It simply means I agree with the core ideas.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-03-2015, 07:18 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 07:22 AM by Blackout.)
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
(02-03-2015 07:16 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(02-03-2015 07:02 AM)One Above All Wrote:  ...

I have no idea what that means.
...

Definition of MERITOCRACY.
1 : a system in which the talented are chosen and moved ahead on the basis of their achievement.
2 : leadership selected on the basis of intellectual criteria.
And this is great. I don't adhere to social darwinism though.

I think communism is anti-merit but capitalism isn't any different because it allows wealth to be passed trough generations of families, allowing a big concentration without any effort at all. I don't want to choose between both because they're both bad. I support capitalism because it's the only choice in the society I live right now, but I'm not going to say we couldn't come up with a more perfect system.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-03-2015, 07:25 AM
RE: What are your thoughts on communism?
Quote:Communism has never existed. The USSR didn't practice communism nor did any other country. The socialistic traits and structures were leaning towards communism but at this current point in time (as most of the others said: 'human nature') it cannot be done.
Yes, only a fool would classify a single party totalitarian regime as communist.
Quote:Human nature is not an argument. I don't know what human nature is, so if you guys have it figured out, let me know. If there are people who can come up with these ideas, there should also be people who are willing to practice them. We need to grow morally to the point where greed, lust, desire for power over others etc. are gone. But that doesn't mean that 'human nature' (whatever that is) is the cause. People can change.
I agree as well. It's not about human nature. I criticize communism because of ideological flaws.
Quote:The idea of communism itself is a bright one and it's good in practice. This is where subjectivity kicks in. People think it won't work, because it has never been done in its purest form. Dictatorship is not part of the plan; not in this sense.
Also true, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't really a dictatorship
Quote:I have to agree though: on a big scale, take the USA for example, communism would not be able to succeed. Atleast not without the strong push of a dictator. On the other hand it is possible for it to work just fine in smaller countries.
Not a chance in hell

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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