What came before God?
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14-06-2016, 01:56 AM
RE: What came before God?
In a place with no time, nothing can change.
If nothing can change, then nothing exists.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-06-2016, 02:07 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 12:54 PM by Glossophile.)
RE: What came before God?
There are two main problems with the argument that God is timeless. First and perhaps most clearly, it's just another example of what I call a "contrived attribute," which I'll define here as "any characteristic, quality, or ability attributed to a deity, designed precisely to nullify some argument(s) against the deity's existence, and crucially lacking any independent justification for its assertion." In an important sense, it's circular reasoning, since it smuggles in a presupposition of God's existence in order to give him characteristics that then prop up the claim that he exists.

Secondly, at least in my view, it creates problems for the supposition of God's consciousness and agenthood. I think the ability to make choices and decisions is a key factor in defining sentience and agency, but can the notions of "choice" and "decision" really have any meaning without any temporal dimension along which we can speak of a time "before" a particular decision or choice is made? If not, then can a completely non-temporal God really be a conscious agent, or does he become indistinguishable from an unthinking force of nature?

The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. – Carl Sagan
Sōla vēritās sancta in philosophiā nātūrālī est absentia vēritātum sanctārum.
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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14-06-2016, 04:53 AM
RE: What came before God?
What came before God? God's Dad.

Smartass
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14-06-2016, 05:47 AM
RE: What came before God?
(13-06-2016 08:38 PM)toantranhhs Wrote:  I was somewhere on the internet and found an interesting article which I thought I would like to share.

Link here:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...d_god.html

It is about what came before God with an argument about God in a dimension where time does not exist therefore nothing has to have cause and effect and neither did God. With the absence of time in God's dimension, God didn't need a cause like everything in our time-existing dimension. That lead to another backfire argument from atheists that there could be a non time-existing dimension before the Big Bang too. In that case, the universe did not need a God. It did not need a cause. It's always been there.

Anyway, it's a good article worth reading and thinking a bit. Check it out and reply me with your arguments and thoughts about it.
Peace, Atheist.

Edit: Typing error

It's a very trite article that's a textbook definition of special pleading.

Who created God's dimension? Magical Leprechauns from the dimension that is above God's dimension, of course.

It's turtles all the way down.

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-06-2016, 05:51 AM
RE: What came before God?
super god came before normal god. hes like normal god but super. dont get me started on super duper god. thats where it starts getting crazy.
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14-06-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: What came before God?
(13-06-2016 08:38 PM)toantranhhs Wrote:  I was somewhere on the internet and found an interesting article which I thought I would like to share.

Link here:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...d_god.html

It is about what came before God with an argument about God in a dimension where time does not exist therefore nothing has to have cause and effect and neither did God. With the absence of time in God's dimension, God didn't need a cause like everything in our time-existing dimension. That lead to another backfire argument from atheists that there could be a non time-existing dimension before the Big Bang too. In that case, the universe did not need a God. It did not need a cause. It's always been there.

Anyway, it's a good article worth reading and thinking a bit. Check it out and reply me with your arguments and thoughts about it.
Peace, Atheist.

Edit: Typing error

It has always been here. That's the only logical conclusion. Time presupposes existence. To say there was a time when there was nothing is to engage in concept stealing fallaciousness. Theists should begin with existence as their starting point instead of non-existence. But that would obviate the need of a creator, wouldn't it? I guess they'll just be stuck then with their invalid starting point.

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The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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14-06-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: What came before God?
If you want to place a god in a timeless environment before time, then it would seem logical that this being is still there, unable to move, unable to change, stuck in a place that has no time. Frozen, unable to think, unable to act, unable to exist.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-06-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: What came before God?
This is always funny to me.
We have evidence of this universe existing.
We do not have any evidence of any gods existing.
If anything is a candidate for being timeless, the universe has a shorter leap in logic to suggest that it is, as opposed to any gods.
The fact of the matter is, we do not know what came before the big bang, so any musing about what came before (especially with some cosmic creationism model) is a waste of internet until we have something to go off of.
These catch-all explanations get exhausting real quick.
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14-06-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: What came before God?
[Image: 175404.jpg]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-06-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: What came before God?
Man came before God, humans how had no clue how we got here and had to create myths to make themselves feel better and to understand the world.

In all seriousness the only way for a theist or deist to understand what came before is to assume he is always existing or actually "is" the universe, in that sense it always existed so there's no need for a God myth at all.

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