What came before God?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-06-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: What came before God?
(14-06-2016 12:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  In all seriousness the only way for a theist or deist to understand what came before is to assume he is always existing or actually "is" the universe, in that sense it always existed so there's no need for a God myth at all.

I think the idea about a god being the universe bothers me more now than the specific claims of a more limited god.
Why not just remove god from the equation, if there is no distinction between god and the universe, know what i mean?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-06-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: What came before God?
(14-06-2016 12:43 PM)Gordon Blue Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 12:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  In all seriousness the only way for a theist or deist to understand what came before is to assume he is always existing or actually "is" the universe, in that sense it always existed so there's no need for a God myth at all.

I think the idea about a god being the universe bothers me more now than the specific claims of a more limited god.
Why not just remove god from the equation, if there is no distinction between god and the universe, know what i mean?

Yes I understand, it's a silly idea. I met a Xian in school once that said perhaps the universe and God are like twins, they were born and came into existence on the same day but the universe was "formless", God created the stars, planets, etc. and all life on our little planet. It's an interesting idea but what made God and the universe? He had no answer. There is no real reason to look at our cosmos and our planet and just assume there was a creator or intelligent designer, reminds me of a great quote from George Carlin:

“Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.”

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-06-2016, 03:23 PM
RE: What came before God?
(13-06-2016 08:38 PM)toantranhhs Wrote:  It is about what came before God with an argument about God in a dimension where time does not exist therefore nothing has to have cause and effect and neither did God. With the absence of time in God's dimension, God didn't need a cause like everything in our time-existing dimension.

On the flip side, without time God couldn't be a cause. You need time for causality. Way to disprove the Creator. Thumbsup

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Paleophyte's post
14-06-2016, 07:46 PM
RE: What came before God?
(13-06-2016 09:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Bob...

I think I'm jealous of Girlyboy.
I wanna be the only begotten son of Bob.

No no no, my bad. I meant the only begotten sons of Bob (daughters in general don't understand SLACK!). SLACK!

[Image: slack.jpg]

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
14-06-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: What came before God?
(14-06-2016 04:53 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  What came before God? God's Dad.

Smartass

Ron Jeremy??? Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-06-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: What came before God?
Isn't this question moot simply because we can prove that the Universe itself had no outside influence in it's creation? We definitely can. The Universe is finite, but it's also without boundaries. This is to say, that, it's much like a Sphere. You walk the whole surface of a sphere, but never reach an edge. This may not immediately mean anything to you but in reality - it means something to physics. This means the Universe is a closed system and was responsible for it's own jump start. However, that jump start had no real beginning you could reach. Just like walking the sphere, there's no definite edge. There's no "Zero". You can keep using fractals to get smaller and smaller every time.

The only counter argument I've seen against this was a poor argument concerning the Planck Scale, in which theologians argue that since the Planck Scale is the smallest we can go, then clearly the Universe is discrete.

No.

It's not. That's completely wrong. They clearly don't understand what the Planck Scale is. All the Planck Scale is, is the limit in which we can physically probe something for information. The energy density at the Planck scale reaches a point that if we tried to physically observe any smaller, the resolution would actually get worse, not better. The density of energy is described as a black hole event horizon. You physically just can not resolute any smaller. BUT, we can still detect through other means much smaller scales. I believe FERMI proved this by measuring the distances of light traveled from GRBs. The Wavelengths were calculated to be some 14 magnitudes smaller than a Planck Length. The Planck Scale is not the smallest physical scale, just the smallest directly observable one. You can continuously get smaller and the same goes with all dimensions, even time. This, ironically, makes the universe maintain it's finite beginning but also make's it infinite. It means its still a closed system without borders. There's no outside level acting upon it, and thus no outside God that ever bothered with it. And if there were ever to be a God, it's existence would be nulled because it would have to exist WITHIN the Universe, would be finite and would be limited. The Universe would've created the God, and thus it wouldn't be a God at all... may as well be a Human.

Stephen has a good lecture explaining the whole "beginning of the universe" question. From this question's answer, we can deduce that it's pointless to ask "what came before God". That question simply does not matter.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Einharjar's post
15-06-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: What came before God?
I really doubt that Mary ever came.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-06-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: What came before God?
I had a fapping competition with god, I came first.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Slowminded's post
15-06-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: What came before God?
(13-06-2016 08:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Causality had to come from come from somewhere, even in this little fantasy world.
How can the god cause Causality, if the principle of Causality is not already in place ? Where did it come from ?

You're very clever, young man, very clever, but it's turtles, all the way down.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RobbyPants's post
15-06-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: What came before God?
What came before God?
A mommy-God and a daddy-God.
When a mommy-God and a daddy-God love each other very much... well, you know...

☆☆☆
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: