What came before the Big Bang?
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17-03-2017, 05:22 PM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Hi, new here. Is this forum for serious discussions about the BBT? I would like to ask this group a question about the BBT: given the nature of the BBT i.e. a singularity point event, is there then a specific direction in the visible universe where one could point to and say that those are the oldest objects or that those objects are moving away from us faster than objects in other in other directions, OR, does it appear to us (from earth) that all visible objects in all directions are equally as old and equally moving apart at the same speed?
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17-03-2017, 08:38 PM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Hello! Big Grin

Welcome to the forum.

Perhaps start a "Hi, I'm..." thread as well?

So, and I'm just a blue collar worker so..., as far as I'm aware pretty much every thing Astronomers can see with their telescopes is moving away from 'Us' (In a pan-galatic sense).

Now, our nearest galactic neighbor Andromeda (Of the new game fame ) is actually moving toward us...

Or, more correctly, our galaxy and Andromeda are orbiting an ever shrinking central point such that eventually there'll be a 'collision' which will eventually 'fuse' both into on larger, new galaxy. I think we're talking in about 100 billion or so years?

Hope that little bit helps.
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17-03-2017, 08:51 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2017 09:22 PM by Robvalue.)
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Rjs: I'm not qualified to answer this, but welcome! Smile

I do know that the BBT only models so far back, not actually reaching a creation event/singularity point, if there was one. So it can't definitively say what things are older than others, it can only go by what happened after a certain point. It seems sensible to me to think that either everything has always existed in some form, or else it all got created at the same time. But really, no one knows.

There's also the problem of time not always being linear/objective, especially close to crazy events like the (supposed) start of the universe, so what it means to be "as old" might not be fully clear. I'm even less qualified to properly comment on that though Big Grin

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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18-03-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(17-03-2017 05:22 PM)rjs5433a Wrote:  Hi, new here. Is this forum for serious discussions about the BBT? I would like to ask this group a question about the BBT: given the nature of the BBT i.e. a singularity point event, is there then a specific direction in the visible universe where one could point to and say that those are the oldest objects or that those objects are moving away from us faster than objects in other in other directions, OR, does it appear to us (from earth) that all visible objects in all directions are equally as old and equally moving apart at the same speed?

Welcome to the forum.

From our POV everything looks pretty similar in all directions. The universe has neither a center nor horizons. Or, looked at another way, every point in the universe can be traced back to the singularity so every point is the center of the universe. If this hurts your head its because your "common sense" evolved to shriek at other monkeys about where the ripest fruit is and is ill-equipped to ponder the origins of space-time.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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18-03-2017, 01:53 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(17-03-2017 05:22 PM)rjs5433a Wrote:  Hi, new here. Is this forum for serious discussions about the BBT? I would like to ask this group a question about the BBT: given the nature of the BBT i.e. a singularity point event, is there then a specific direction in the visible universe where one could point to and say that those are the oldest objects or that those objects are moving away from us faster than objects in other in other directions, OR, does it appear to us (from earth) that all visible objects in all directions are equally as old and equally moving apart at the same speed?

All of your questions will be answered here.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-03-2017, 02:16 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(18-03-2017 01:53 AM)Banjo Wrote:  All of your questions will be answered here.

My dad thinks that show is hilarious. I think it should die in a fire.

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18-03-2017, 05:29 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Quote:Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 42

The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang.
They achieve harmony by combining these forces.

Men hate to be "orphaned," "widowed," or "worthless,"
But this is how kings and lords describe themselves.

For one gains by losing
And loses by gaining.

What others teach, I also teach; that is:
"A violent man will die a violent death!"
This will be the essence of my teaching.


So... 3. Big Grin

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20-03-2017, 03:52 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
I might be wrong, but is part of the main theory (of possible a later one) that with the universe noticeably slowing down in its expansion, there could eventually be "the big crunch", where everything retracts to it's singular point, and another "bang" happens, creating a new universe, and the process repeats over again?

Those does raise the question of are we the first universe? and when did the first "bang" happen?

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
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20-03-2017, 04:06 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 05:39 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Current measurements, albeit they have pretty large error bars, show that the acceleration of the expansion universe is actually increasing, so the big crunch is, currently, no option.

Method of finding this out is measuring supernovas. Particularly the Ia type, which always has the same intrinsic brightness. They are recording the apparent brightness and redshift, and based on the intrinsic/apparent brightness ratio (with intrinsic brightness being a constant) can calculate the distance. Thus they can print redshift over distance charts. Redshift again is a direct measurement for speed with which an object receds from us.

Current data suggests that redshift does not proportionally increase with distance, as would be expected with constant rate of expansion, but with more than that, suggesting accelerated expansion.

Even with decelerating expansion and repeating big crunches, some scientists suggest that eternal cycles of universes banging into existence and later crunching out of it is a possibility. Infnities are a very weird thing and one needs to get used working with them. They are, like quantum mechanics, counter intuitive. So "the first big bang" may be a question that actually doenst make a lot of sense.

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20-03-2017, 04:12 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 04:20 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 03:52 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I might be wrong, but is part of the main theory (of possible a later one) that with the universe noticeably slowing down in its expansion, there could eventually be "the big crunch", where everything retracts to it's singular point, and another "bang" happens, creating a new universe, and the process repeats over again?

Those does raise the question of are we the first universe? and when did the first "bang" happen?

It's my understanding that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. So much so that eventually galaxies will be so far away from one another that the distance cannot be made up even at the speed of light, and the universe will dim and practically all the observable evidence we currently have on hand will effectively disappear. Each galaxy will be their own pocket universe, entirely oblivious to the existence of others, until they eventually burn up all of their fuel and their stars all burn out.

According to our current projections, if humanity had come into it's own 1 trillion years from now, we very probably wouldn't be able to detect anything beyond our own galaxy. The other galaxies would be too far away and moving apart so fast that light would never be able to bridge the gap. Once the combined velocity of two object moving apart from each other exceeds the speed of light (e.g. each moving greater than 50% the speed of light apart), they effectively disappear from an observer positioned on either one. Given another trillion years, the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB) will have entirely dissipated and no longer be detectable, as it's currently only a few degrees above Kelvin right now (and zero degrees Kelvin is absolute zero, you cannot really get any colder than no movement at the molecular level).


Precise measurements of the CMB are critical to cosmology, since any proposed model of the universe must explain this radiation. The CMB has a thermal black body spectrum at a temperature of 2.72548±0.00057 K.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_mic...background


It's my understanding that this observable acceleration is the driving force behind dark energy, itself being a stop-gap term and fill in variable to make the equations fit our observations. We don't currently know what dark energy is, but if our models are accurate, there is something fueling the expansion rate of the universe and overcoming the force of gravity on a universe wide scale. While dark energy has actually been detected through gravitational lensing effects, where a mass of dark energy is detectable by how it bends light that passes around it; dark energy is essentially just the remainder of complex astrophysics equations, the sum total of energy required to explain the observable evidence for acceleration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lens


Really, if you can ever catch an episode of How the Universe Works on the topic, it's rather fascinating stuff.








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