What came before the Big Bang?
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20-03-2017, 04:32 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Fair shout, I was aware it was one of a few different ideas. I think the one that makes sense is that the universe will continue to expand, until everything is so far away from each other, and all stars go out.

I found this, which has a rough "timeline of the fgture" which is an interesting read. I would say [warning]: this may lead to long Wiki-searches that take up most of your time Smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...e_Universe

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20-03-2017, 04:46 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 04:32 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Fair shout, I was aware it was one of a few different ideas. I think the one that makes sense is that the universe will continue to expand, until everything is so far away from each other, and all stars go out.

I found this, which has a rough "timeline of the fgture" which is an interesting read. I would say [warning]: this may lead to long Wiki-searches that take up most of your time Smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...e_Universe

From the chart.

10^12 (1 Trillion) years.

Low estimate for the time until star formation ends in galaxies as galaxies are depleted of the gas clouds they need to form stars.

The universe's expansion, assuming a constant dark energy density, multiplies the wavelength of the cosmic microwave background by 10^29, exceeding the scale of the cosmic light horizon and rendering its evidence of the Big Bang undetectable. However, it may still be possible to determine the expansion of the universe through the study of hypervelocity stars.

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20-03-2017, 04:53 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Lawrence Krauss will be here on the 1st. Bowing If I get a chance I'll ask him what the latest take is on expansion.
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20-03-2017, 05:35 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Well, I'm back home now. Going to put on a How the Universe Works playlist on YouTube, and go shoot and loot some raiders in Fallout 4.

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20-03-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Well, I'm back home now. Going to put on a How the Universe Works playlist on YouTube, and go shoot and loot some raiders in Fallout 4.

It would be fun to tie Ken Ham up and drug him so he can't sleep, then play "How the Universe Works" videos 24/7.
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20-03-2017, 05:50 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
Quote:It's my understanding that this observable acceleration is the driving force behind dark energy, itself being a stop-gap term and fill in variable to make the equations fit our observations. We don't currently know what dark energy is, but if our models are accurate, there is something fueling the expansion rate of the universe and overcoming the force of gravity on a universe wide scale. While dark energy has actually been detected through gravitational lensing effects, where a mass of dark energy is detectable by how it bends light that passes around it; dark energy is essentially just the remainder of complex astrophysics equations, the sum total of energy required to explain the observable evidence for acceleration.

For the record, EK, and you may call me a science nazi for this, but i think you got that wrong here. Blush Laugh out load

Gravitational lensing is what suggests *dark matter*, although ND Tyson suggested to better call it properly *dark gravity*, since we havent established that the cause for this apparent (additional to the grtavity of visible, baryonic matter) gravity is actually mass. We just dont know anything better than mass to cause gravity (argument from ignorance fallacy pending). Ok, ok, a warp drive maybe. Big Grin

Afaik, *dark Energy* was introduced exactly because of those observations of an seemingly accelerating universe.

If we have all this mass (= gravity) that pulls the universe together, but the universe still expands, then there must be something working against gravity. The only thing we know to overcome gravity is *energy* (as a placeholder for basically any kind of *energy* we can conceive of and even more).

Additional to that we know that objects are receeding from us proprortional to their distance. So the best (= most simple according to occhams razor) hypothesis would be energy that is related to the vastness in between all the masses of the universe. And what is this *thing* in between all the particles of the universe?.....Space (!), so this repulsive force is assumed to be the effect of some energy related to space itself, but damn, we cant observe it directly (like dark mass) yet, only its effect, hence "dark energy".
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20-03-2017, 06:51 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 05:50 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:It's my understanding that this observable acceleration is the driving force behind dark energy, itself being a stop-gap term and fill in variable to make the equations fit our observations. We don't currently know what dark energy is, but if our models are accurate, there is something fueling the expansion rate of the universe and overcoming the force of gravity on a universe wide scale. While dark energy has actually been detected through gravitational lensing effects, where a mass of dark energy is detectable by how it bends light that passes around it; dark energy is essentially just the remainder of complex astrophysics equations, the sum total of energy required to explain the observable evidence for acceleration.

For the record, EK, and you may call me a science nazi for this, but i think you got that wrong here. Blush Laugh out load

Gravitational lensing is what suggests *dark matter*, although ND Tyson suggested to better call it properly *dark gravity*, since we havent established that the cause for this apparent (additional to the grtavity of visible, baryonic matter) gravity is actually mass. We just dont know anything better than mass to cause gravity (argument from ignorance fallacy pending). Ok, ok, a warp drive maybe. Big Grin

Afaik, *dark Energy* was introduced exactly because of those observations of an seemingly accelerating universe.

If we have all this mass (= gravity) that pulls the universe together, but the universe still expands, then there must be something working against gravity. The only thing we know to overcome gravity is *energy* (as a placeholder for basically any kind of *energy* we can conceive of and even more).

Additional to that we know that objects are receeding from us proprortional to their distance. So the best (= most simple according to occhams razor) hypothesis would be energy that is related to the vastness in between all the masses of the universe. And what is this *thing* in between all the particles of the universe?.....Space (!), so this repulsive force is assumed to be the effect of some energy related to space itself, but damn, we cant observe it directly (like dark mass) yet, only its effect, hence "dark energy".
Smartass

Yeah, I did mean dark matter when it comes to gravitational lensing.

Dark matter is needed to explain the rotational speed of galaxies. They simply spin far to fast for how little visible matter there is, by about a factor of 10. So it's thought that visible matter coalesces around dark matter, and it is dark matter that forms the structure of the universe. Once you have those numbers, then you need dark energy to explain the acceleration of all that mass against the force of gravity.

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20-03-2017, 07:43 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 06:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Dark matter is needed to explain the rotational speed of galaxies.

Not necessarily. Some theories of modified gravity can also explain the rotational speed of galaxies.

There is also a relatively new theory that claims gravity is an emergent phenomenon not a fundamental force of nature. E. P. Verlinde's new Theory of Emergent Gravity provides an explanation for the observations currently attributed to dark matter without invoking dark matter.

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20-03-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
(20-03-2017 07:43 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 06:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Dark matter is needed to explain the rotational speed of galaxies.

Not necessarily. Some theories of modified gravity can also explain the rotational speed of galaxies.

There is also a relatively new theory that claims gravity is an emergent phenomenon not a fundamental force of nature. E. P. Verlinde's new Theory of Emergent Gravity provides an explanation for the observations currently attributed to dark matter without invoking dark matter.

What about millions of spaceships with warp drives? Big Grin
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20-03-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: What came before the Big Bang?
I wasn't trying to disprove dark matter. Only trying to point out there are other hypothesis that attempt to explain the same observations. If one of the alternative models of gravity is correct then dark matter/energy isn't required to explain anything.

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