What can I ask this Mormon?
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17-02-2015, 11:04 PM
What can I ask this Mormon?
I know this Mormon who's actually really nice and we talk about all sorts of stuff science, space, religion sometimes etc. Religion gets interesting obviously.

To keep things from getting awkward I never ask WHY he believes what he believes. Instead I ask WHAT he believes and ask what he thinks about the contradictions.

Anything anyone would like me to ask? and I'll let you know what he says.


I've already talked about prayer and if it changes gods plan, asked why Joseph smith couldn't recite the Book of Mormon twice, asked how he felt about Joseph smith being a convicted of a com artist before he wrote the Book of Mormon, lots of stuff

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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18-02-2015, 02:07 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
(17-02-2015 11:04 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  I know this Mormon who's actually really nice and we talk about all sorts of stuff science, space, religion sometimes etc. Religion gets interesting obviously.

To keep things from getting awkward I never ask WHY he believes what he believes. Instead I ask WHAT he believes and ask what he thinks about the contradictions.

Anything anyone would like me to ask? and I'll let you know what he says.


I've already talked about prayer and if it changes gods plan, asked why Joseph smith couldn't recite the Book of Mormon twice, asked how he felt about Joseph smith being a convicted of a com artist before he wrote the Book of Mormon, lots of stuff

Ask him about the fallibility of scriptures, and of revelations to the head of the church. Were the revelations about blacks being inferior absolute and indisputable truth, or should the body of the church been hesitant to accept them and considered the possibility that they were in error? Did they magically become false upon the church reversing itself, or had they been false all along? What about the church's current positions on homosexuality? Are they absolutely and indisputably true, or should the body of the church be hesitant to accept them and consider the possibility that they were in error?
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18-02-2015, 03:29 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
Ask him how he feels about the Book of Abraham and what that does for Joseph Smith's credibility.

Ask him if he is aware of any archaeological evidence to support the idea that ancient Israelites sailed to America.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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18-02-2015, 05:47 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
(18-02-2015 03:29 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  Ask him how he feels about the Book of Abraham and what that does for Joseph Smith's credibility.

Ask him if he is aware of any archaeological evidence to support the idea that ancient Israelites sailed to America.

And point out that the DNA evidence conclusively shows that they didn't.
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18-02-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
(17-02-2015 11:04 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  asked why Joseph smith couldn't recite the Book of Mormon twice

My understanding is they have an answer for that; it's just very hand-wavy. It involves God being mad that the original copy was lost, but ultimately deciding to let Smith translate a different but similar book (that no one else was allowed to see).

I mean, it's literally as bad as a kindergartener saying they can fly but they just don't feel like showing you, but they do have an answer.


(18-02-2015 03:29 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  Ask him if he is aware of any archaeological evidence to support the idea that ancient Israelites sailed to America.

This is the one I was going to suggest.
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18-02-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
(17-02-2015 11:04 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  I know this Mormon who's actually really nice and we talk about all sorts of stuff science, space, religion sometimes etc. Religion gets interesting obviously.

To keep things from getting awkward I never ask WHY he believes what he believes. Instead I ask WHAT he believes and ask what he thinks about the contradictions.

Anything anyone would like me to ask? and I'll let you know what he says.


I've already talked about prayer and if it changes gods plan, asked why Joseph smith couldn't recite the Book of Mormon twice, asked how he felt about Joseph smith being a convicted of a com artist before he wrote the Book of Mormon, lots of stuff

Show him this post and ask him what he thinks of it?
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18-02-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
Ask him if when he went on a mission he had to leave the bathroom door open to make sure he wasn't in there wanking off.
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18-02-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
(18-02-2015 08:34 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  Ask him if when he went on a mission he had to leave the bathroom door open to make sure he wasn't in there wanking off.

Is that actually a thing they do?
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18-02-2015, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 18-02-2015 09:47 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: What can I ask this Mormon?
My father and step mother are mormons.

In Mormonism, men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state of godhood, a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy. At this point, they receive a temple recommend, whereupon the Mormon is allowed to enter their sacred temples in order to go through a set of secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into the highest level of heaven. For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then he or she will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.

The BOM is ...an entertaining read. Here is an inside hidden video of their inner sanctums...a must watch.





The mormons think North America is where all of the magic happened, lets take a look at some issues with the book of mormon (BOM).

Ether 9:19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.

Elephants weren't in America at the time of the BOM

Ether 2:3 And they did also carry with them desert, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.

Honey Bees were introduced to the Americas by the Spanish

1 Nephi 18:25 And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper. (Horses see 2 Nephi 12:7; 2 Nephi 15:28; Enos 1:21; Alma 18:9,10,12; 20:6; 3 Nephi 3:22; 4:4; 6:1; 21:14; Ether 9:19; )

Horses didn't exist in America until the 16th Century 590-589 BC

1 Nephi 4:9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel. (See also 1 Neph 16:18; 2 Nephi 5:15; Jarom 1:8; Ether 7:9)

The Jews didn't have steel at that time. 600-592 B.C.

Alma 4:6 And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine silks, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.

Jews didn't have silk then. The Jews didn't have silk at that time 86-83 B.C.

---------------------------------------------
1. The book originally claimed that the Indians were all descended from Jews who left Jerusalem about 621 B.C.E. because of the imminent Babylonian captivity. Now, after several thousand edits, it claims that the BofM people were "one of many" of the people of the New World. All available DNA evidence indicates that racially the American Indians came from either Asian, Pacific islander or even some input from Early European mixtures in Asia, but none, zero, from Semitic sources.

2. The Nephites and Lamanites, the 2 Jewish groups that were opposed to each other, supposedly brought with them horses, sheep, cattle and a variety of grains and fruits. NONE of which were evident when the European explorers arrived. There was no knowledge or history of these animals among the Indians of that time.

3. None of the animals that were native to either North or South America; Mountain lions, buffalo, elk, deer, grizzly bears, jaguars, howler monkeys and so on are not mentioned.

4. The location of their landing, a place identified as a "narrow neck of land" has never been identified. The church originally located it in Central america, due to all the archaeology that was being discovered during the last century. Now they make no claims. No specific terrain formations that obviously stand out, like volcanoes, are not mentioned. Central America is home to over 40 volcanoes, some of which were known to be active during the 1900 year period that encompasses the Book of Mormon.

5. The book speaks of vast cities, numerous armies numbering in the thousands, bloody battles and so on by armed and armored forces on horseback and on foot. None of the cities described or any remnant of any battles or anything indicating what the book describes has ever been found.

6. The book mentions coinage, a monetary system, the smelting of metals-including steel, which was unknown to the Israelis of 621 BC- and the ability to mine, smelt, and forge all manner of implements and weapons. Native Americans possessed no such technology and there is no evidence it ever existed prior to the Europeans arriving. In the Holy Land, where coinage was in use for centuries, there today you can still find ancient coins in numerous locations. None in the Americas.

7. The Book of Mormon itself was not an original idea. The concept of Indians being Jewish-which was lampooned by Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles"- was an idea currently popular when the book was written. A book entitled "View of the Hebrews" was already in print prior to the Book of Mormon's publication. there are many parallels between to two books, oddly enough.

8. The Golden Plates from which the BofM was translated were supposed to have magically been kept in a hill that happened to be close to Joseph Smith's home. He was seen carrying a bundle under his arm which he claimed were the plates. The plates, made of gold or an alloy of gold, were supposedly about nine by six by nearly a foot thick, a bundle that would weigh 300 pounds, that he was carrying around under his arm.

9. the book was published in 1830. The First Vision, from which Joseph supposedly was told by God about the book, happened in 1820. In the intervening period he was married and applied for membership to the Methodist church. He was denied because he was known as a man of low character. The First Vision story did not come out until after the publication of the book, and his own mother, who wrote a diary of that time, never mentions it.

10. Many aspects of the BofM and characters in the book-Laban, from whom the golden plates were taken in Jerusalem- just happen to be characters in Masonic ceremonies. Joseph Smith became a Mason along with his brothers and Brigham Young during the period of time all this was happening.

The characters in the BofM only encountered 2 other groups that were not a part of their solo journey- both of which also came from Judea. There is no mention of any other tribe or group. In that period of American history, the entirety of North and South America were populated from Canada to Patagonia with millions of Native Americans, none of which were ever encountered.

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Joseph Smith, the founder:

1. Came from a family that was known for their slothfulness and illegal behavior. Joseph Smith was tried and convicted of a crime called "money digging" which was a scam wherein he and some unscrupulous friends convinced local people that they knew the whereabouts of secret treasure, and would con them into being paid to dig for it.

2. While leading the church in Illinois, created an illegal bank by convincing his followers to contribute their life savings. He did this by showing them a box that was supposedly full of coins, but in fact had one layer and the rest filled with rocks. He, the chosen prophet of god, then invested the money in bad land schemes and lost it all, first running from the law and then blaming it all on other people who he had coerced into signing their names to the contracts.

3. Became a polygamist first without bothering to tell his wife, until he was supposedly caught shanking his 16 year old housemaid, Fanny Alger. There is some dispute about that, but it is known he polygamously married at least ten women all under the legal marrying age, the youngest 14. She later admitted, after going to Utah with the Mormons, that he sired a child by her.
The "revelation" on polygamy happened after he began having affairs with women. He even sent men on missions and then convinced their wives at home to engage in sexual congress with him.

4. Joseph smith was imprisoned because the people of Nauvoo, Illinois, rebelling against him, published a paper denouncing him. Smith's henchmen destroyed the printing press, a direct offense against the constitutional right of freedom of the press. He also threatened the lives of everyone involved with the paper and confiscated their goods and property by force.

I could go on, but this is enough info to give you some good questions to ask Evil_monster

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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18-02-2015, 09:47 AM
What can I ask this Mormon?
^beautiful. Also I've already asked about some of those other questions/contradictions posted. when I get time I'll post what he said to some. Very "hand wavy" it involves Pangea and "well that was then this is now" etc.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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