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What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
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20-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Re: RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(20-10-2012 09:01 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  wait wait wait back the truck up.

What happened? Did Obama do something to make his chances of re-election zero or something?
(Not following American politics lately)

It's a thread by trainwreck so you can't use the exact wording as the intent... I think that's how it works.

The thing he could of done that would of earned my vote would be stop placating banks and letting walstreet run things. Impossible feats I know but the other things mentioned here are minor.

I push for a change in the political party system though. The fifth party system has gone to long

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20-10-2012, 11:52 PM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
What you gotta ask yourself is:

Obama did X. What would have conservative Christian right have done?

If Y > X then vote Republican
If X > Y then re-elect 'Bama

It's not always about what they did, but more what they did in regards to what the other party would have done.

It's like here. The two main parties are Labor and National. Labor is very nanny state and National is more business focused (though more central then right by todays standards, while Labor is still pretty far left).
So when National implements some welfare thing, it's highly laughable when the Labor leader comments about how it's bad for the country when it's EXACTLY what Labor would have done.

Just, keep it in mind.

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21-10-2012, 12:45 AM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
What kind of stupid question is that? You are merely asking if he is perfect, and the answer is obvious....
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21-10-2012, 03:49 AM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(20-10-2012 07:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 10:59 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Hmm....to earn my vote he would have had to have done the following

End the illegal war in Afghanistan (OEF)
End the illegal war in Iraq (OIF) *For real, getting everyone out, not just the most of the troops
Work to either end the Fed, or at least make it transparent.
Work to either abolish, or at least minimize the "War or Drugs"
I would add at least three more points to that list.

Cut the military budget
Shut down the Guantanamo Bay detention camp
Re-establish the habeas corpus

1) No current presidential candidate will ever do that.
2) The problem is while running for president, you do not have access to classified information. I am sure once Obama gained access to said intelligence, he perhaps had a second thought about closing Guantanamo Bay.
3) As I have said, I really don't think the NDAA bill applies to citizens of the United States, and specifically targets tourists and those with Green Cards.

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21-10-2012, 09:20 AM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2012 09:24 AM by Vosur.)
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(21-10-2012 03:49 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  1) No current presidential candidate will ever do that.
2) The problem is while running for president, you do not have access to classified information. I am sure once Obama gained access to said intelligence, he perhaps had a second thought about closing Guantanamo Bay.
3) As I have said, I really don't think the NDAA bill applies to citizens of the United States, and specifically targets tourists and those with Green Cards.
1. According to the OP, this thread is not about what Obama will do, but about what he should have done.
2. He doesn't require any kind of classified information in order to promote shutting down an institution of torture.
3. So somehow tourists and those with Green Cards don't have the basic human right of being brought in front of a court before being sent to a torture camp for an indefinite time? Gotcha. Yes

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22-10-2012, 03:35 PM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(20-10-2012 09:01 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  wait wait wait back the truck up.

What happened? Did Obama do something to make his chances of re-election zero or something?
(Not following American politics lately)

The problem I am addressing is that he is encountering opposition, when the idea of getting a negro man as president was supposedly going to eradicate corruption, but he has admitted that he failed to do that, or whatever it was he meant by "change Washington."

Obama has not changed Washington, and he is being challenged for re-election.

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22-10-2012, 03:38 PM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(20-10-2012 11:52 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What you gotta ask yourself is:

Obama did X. What would have conservative Christian right have done?

If Y > X then vote Republican
If X > Y then re-elect 'Bama

It's not always about what they did, but more what they did in regards to what the other party would have done.

Too bad you cannot describe what perfect policy the independent and critically thinking atheists can come up with.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
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22-10-2012, 04:11 PM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(22-10-2012 03:38 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Too bad you cannot describe what perfect policy the independent and critically thinking atheists can come up with.

Are you kidding? We atheists can't even conceive of a decent classification system!

Seeing as how the dictionary clearly describes atheism as "a collective of politically independent, critical thinking geniuses" you'd think we could offer a political agenda based on our shared atheist political beliefs, right?

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23-10-2012, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2012 11:01 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(21-10-2012 09:20 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 03:49 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  1) No current presidential candidate will ever do that.
2) The problem is while running for president, you do not have access to classified information. I am sure once Obama gained access to said intelligence, he perhaps had a second thought about closing Guantanamo Bay.
3) As I have said, I really don't think the NDAA bill applies to citizens of the United States, and specifically targets tourists and those with Green Cards.
1. According to the OP, this thread is not about what Obama will do, but about what he should have done.
2. He doesn't require any kind of classified information in order to promote shutting down an institution of torture.
3. So somehow tourists and those with Green Cards don't have the basic human right of being brought in front of a court before being sent to a torture camp for an indefinite time? Gotcha. Yes

1) This is about what no president has ever done.

2)
Quote:On January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama signed an order to suspend the proceedings of the Guantanamo military commission for 120 days and that the detention facility would be shut down within the year.[9][10] On January 29, 2009, a military judge at Guantanamo rejected the White House request in the case of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, creating an unexpected challenge for the administration as it reviews how America puts Guantanamo detainees on trial.[11] On May 20, 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) by a 90-6 vote to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners held at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[12] President Obama issued a Presidential memorandum dated December 15, 2009, ordering the preparation of the Thomson Correctional Center, Thomson, Illinois so as to enable the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners there.[13] The Final Report of the Guantanamo Review Task Force dated January 22, 2010 published the results for the 240 detainees subject to the Review: 36 were the subject of active cases or investigations; 30 detainees from Yemen were designated for 'conditional detention' due to the security environment in Yemen; 126 detainees were approved for transfer; 48 detainees were determined 'too dangerous to transfer but not feasible for prosecution'.[14] The Federation of American Scientists published a report entitled 'Enemy Combatant Detainees: Habeas Corpus Challenges in Federal Court'.[15]
On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill which places restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to other foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the detention facility.[16] U.S. Secretary of Defense Gates said during a testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee on February 17, 2011: "The prospects for closing Guantanamo as best I can tell are very, very low given very broad opposition to doing that here in the Congress."[17] After the United Nations called unsuccessfully for the Guantanamo Bay detention camp to be closed, one judge observed 'America's idea of what is torture ... does not appear to coincide with that of most civilized nations'.[18] In April 2011, Wikileaks began publishing 779 secret files relating to prisoners in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[19] As of September 2012, 167 detainees remain at Guantanamo.[20][21][22]
3)
Quote:“The only provision from which U.S. citizens are exempted here is the“requirement” of military detention,” Greenwald writes. “For foreign nationals accused of being members of Al Qaeda, military detention is mandatory; for U.S. citizens, it is optional. This section does not exempt U.S citizens from the presidential power of military detention: only from the requirement of military detention.”
When did I ever say I supported it?

Anyway, the fact of the matter is, Obama has done a lot to water down the Patriot Act and to close Guantanamo.

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23-10-2012, 11:44 AM
RE: What could have President Obama done to save his re-election?
(23-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  1) This is about what no president has ever done.
What's your point? As I've said previously, this thread is not about what past presidents have/could/should have done, this thread is about what Obama should have done to secure his re-election. If you think that cutting the military budget and using the money to improve public services such as education and healthcare is not one of those things, that's fine with me.

(23-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  2)
Quote:On January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama signed an order to suspend the proceedings of the Guantanamo military commission for 120 days and that the detention facility would be shut down within the year.[9][10] On January 29, 2009, a military judge at Guantanamo rejected the White House request in the case of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, creating an unexpected challenge for the administration as it reviews how America puts Guantanamo detainees on trial.[11] On May 20, 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) by a 90-6 vote to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners held at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[12] President Obama issued a Presidential memorandum dated December 15, 2009, ordering the preparation of the Thomson Correctional Center, Thomson, Illinois so as to enable the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners there.[13] The Final Report of the Guantanamo Review Task Force dated January 22, 2010 published the results for the 240 detainees subject to the Review: 36 were the subject of active cases or investigations; 30 detainees from Yemen were designated for 'conditional detention' due to the security environment in Yemen; 126 detainees were approved for transfer; 48 detainees were determined 'too dangerous to transfer but not feasible for prosecution'.[14] The Federation of American Scientists published a report entitled 'Enemy Combatant Detainees: Habeas Corpus Challenges in Federal Court'.[15]
On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill which places restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to other foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the detention facility.[16] U.S. Secretary of Defense Gates said during a testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee on February 17, 2011: "The prospects for closing Guantanamo as best I can tell are very, very low given very broad opposition to doing that here in the Congress."[17] After the United Nations called unsuccessfully for the Guantanamo Bay detention camp to be closed, one judge observed 'America's idea of what is torture ... does not appear to coincide with that of most civilized nations'.[18] In April 2011, Wikileaks began publishing 779 secret files relating to prisoners in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[19] As of September 2012, 167 detainees remain at Guantanamo.[20][21][22]
I'm familiar with Obama's past attempts to shut down the Guantanamo Bay detention camp. The problem is not that he lacks classified information, the problem is that he's outnumbered in Congress.

(23-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  3)
Quote:“The only provision from which U.S. citizens are exempted here is the“requirement” of military detention,” Greenwald writes. “For foreign nationals accused of being members of Al Qaeda, military detention is mandatory; for U.S. citizens, it is optional. This section does not exempt U.S citizens from the presidential power of military detention: only from the requirement of military detention.”
When did I ever say I supported it?
Hence why I neither thought, nor said that you do. When I read your post I had the impression that you think the abolishment of the habeas corpus is somehow less bad if Americans are excluded from it.

(23-10-2012 10:50 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Anyway, the fact of the matter is, Obama has done a lot to water down the Patriot Act and to close Guantanamo.
I've never said otherwise.

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