Poll: What year do you think atheism will become the global majority
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What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
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12-09-2017, 11:15 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
In Christian and Hebrew thought, the concept that is valued is not when a "majority" or large number of believers is achieved.
Throughout history, religious thinkers have raised the notion of 'the remnant', (a small but faithful) group of believers. Funny thing. We have heard nothing about that from theist(s) in this thread. Laugh out load
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remnant_(Bible)

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13-09-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
Quoting Tomasia:

" Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God. Just like those christians saying that they don't subscribe to religion, doesn't equate to them not having a religion. If you subscribe to beliefs that fall under the wide variety of historically theistic perspectives, you're not an atheist, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. You're just confused. "

And those of us who don’t believe in supernatural forces/beings of any kind- no god; no soul; no afterlife; no ghosts; no fate/"things happen for a reason"; no psychic phenomenon; no cryptozoological beings; no Cosmic Consciousness aka 'The Universe'; no alien visitations - none of it, are we confused theists, too, Tom? I ask because "Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God" looks like a vast generalisation- a box to put everybody in.

(Apologies for the look of this- I don't know how to use the quote function properly. Tips would be welcome.)
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13-09-2017, 04:06 AM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(13-09-2017 01:02 AM)Sushisnake Wrote:  Quoting Tomasia:

" Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God. Just like those christians saying that they don't subscribe to religion, doesn't equate to them not having a religion. If you subscribe to beliefs that fall under the wide variety of historically theistic perspectives, you're not an atheist, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. You're just confused. "

And those of us who don’t believe in supernatural forces/beings of any kind- no god; no soul; no afterlife; no ghosts; no fate/"things happen for a reason"; no psychic phenomenon; no cryptozoological beings; no Cosmic Consciousness aka 'The Universe'; no alien visitations - none of it, are we confused theists, too, Tom? I ask because "Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God" looks like a vast generalisation- a box to put everybody in.

(Apologies for the look of this- I don't know how to use the quote function properly. Tips would be welcome.)

I recently entered into my first with a theist who believed there was no such thing as an athiest. His position was similar to this one in that his stances was if you have knowledge of something you believe it exists. I countered with examples of fictional characters that we all had knowledge of (Superman) and stated that because you have knowledge of something, or pretend to be that something on halloween doesn't mean you believe it exists. He said that it did mean I believed they existed and tried to strawman it over to me saying I didn't believe by kid existed when he was in a superman costume, and that I didn't think books were real. There comes a point at which even I back away from the crazy though...

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13-09-2017, 04:36 AM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(13-09-2017 01:02 AM)Sushisnake Wrote:  Quoting Tomasia:

" Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God. Just like those christians saying that they don't subscribe to religion, doesn't equate to them not having a religion. If you subscribe to beliefs that fall under the wide variety of historically theistic perspectives, you're not an atheist, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. You're just confused. "

And those of us who don’t believe in supernatural forces/beings of any kind- no god; no soul; no afterlife; no ghosts; no fate/"things happen for a reason"; no psychic phenomenon; no cryptozoological beings; no Cosmic Consciousness aka 'The Universe'; no alien visitations - none of it, are we confused theists, too, Tom?

Tomasia is again confusing atheism with a belief system. You can be a cultural Christian in many ways and still be an atheist, as long as you don't believe in God. You simply don't consider your beliefs as deriving from God but from your culture.

For quotes, you use "quote" and "/quote" at the beginning and end respectively, each within square brackets. You can edit your replies down to these.
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13-09-2017, 05:37 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2017 06:02 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
Quote:Saying you don't believe in God doesn't equate to you not believing in God. Just like those christians saying that they don't subscribe to religion, doesn't equate to them not having a religion. If you subscribe to beliefs that fall under the wide variety of historically theistic perspectives, you're not an atheist, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. You're just confused.

Is just classic Tomato dishonest equivocation.
He's well known for it.
They teach it in "Advanced Church Lady" class.

If you don't subscribe to a religion, you're not a Christian. You're not confused. Christianity is a SPECIFIC religion.
If what Tomato is saying is true, then *saying* you subscribe to a religion also just means you're confused.
Either it means something, or it doesn't.

Quote:If you subscribe to beliefs that fall under the wide variety of historically theistic perspectives, you're not an atheist, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
Is patently false.
Typical theist bullshit. Tomato thinks he can read minds, tell people how they identify and what they think.
So according to him, if one chooses to be kind to one's neighbors for purely humanitarian reasons, and they absolutely reject the absurd notion of a god, it means they are just confused and still a theist.
Facepalm

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13-09-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(13-09-2017 05:37 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Typical theist bullshit. Tomato thinks he can read minds, tell people how they identify and what they think.

He, like most theists I know, have this complete inability to imagine that anyone can survive without religion. I think they actually can't think that way anymore.
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13-09-2017, 07:08 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
Well the consensus appears to be "never" with respect to the OP's question.

Maybe the question then becomes, is there any point in unbelievers arguing against theism. Is this a quixotic enterprise, or do we carry some sort of noble torch for humanity?

My problem with the latter notion is that it sounds a little too much for comfort like the religious "tattered remnant" concept where we'e slogging it out holding the fort in the face of huge opposition.

My tendency is to believe that truth eventually (sometimes VERY eventually) wins, and our job isn't a holding action, it's an inexorable build up to a better world. Maybe with lots of left turns and set backs, but still. I'm not ready to say an unqualified "never".
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13-09-2017, 08:21 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2017 08:46 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
Imperceptibly, but really, the ideas of what a god is, have changed radically, rather quickly. Would Christians have gone around 200 years ago, saying "God is love". No. Would the leader of one of the largest Christian groups, (Catholics) even 50 years ago say "atheists can go to heaven too" ? 60 years ago, Madelyn Murray O'Hare was the devil incarnate. Now one can say they are not a believer in public, and can be met with "meh". Things are changing very fast. If you asked 100 Christians if they felt "substitutionary atonement" was a metaphysical necessity, I doubt 50 of them would even know what you were talking about.

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13-09-2017, 08:50 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(13-09-2017 07:08 PM)mordant Wrote:  Well the consensus appears to be "never" with respect to the OP's question.

Maybe the question then becomes, is there any point in unbelievers arguing against theism. Is this a quixotic enterprise, or do we carry some sort of noble torch for humanity?

My problem with the latter notion is that it sounds a little too much for comfort like the religious "tattered remnant" concept where we'e slogging it out holding the fort in the face of huge opposition.

My tendency is to believe that truth eventually (sometimes VERY eventually) wins, and our job isn't a holding action, it's an inexorable build up to a better world. Maybe with lots of left turns and set backs, but still. I'm not ready to say an unqualified "never".

Never only has 53% so it's far from a consensus...

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13-09-2017, 09:47 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(12-09-2017 11:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  In Christian and Hebrew thought, the concept that is valued is not when a "majority" or large number of believers is achieved.
Throughout history, religious thinkers have raised the notion of 'the remnant', (a small but faithful) group of believers. Funny thing. We have heard nothing about that from theist(s) in this thread. Laugh out load
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remnant_(Bible)

I'm surprised Ken Ham hasn't latched on to the remnant idea to explain Australia's First Nation people.
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