Poll: What year do you think atheism will become the global majority
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What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
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08-09-2017, 09:46 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
Never. The religious are pretty good at fucking without contraception and spreadin' the stupid.
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08-09-2017, 09:48 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(08-09-2017 09:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-09-2017 05:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  2045. May God take mercy on our souls.

All Skynet will need is a quick scan of Facebook in order to rationalize destruction of the entire human race...

If it visits the Cringe Channel it might self destruct from excessive cringing. I know I've come close a few times.

The only thing worse than the posts are the comments.

https://www.facebook.com/cringechannel/p...=3&theater
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09-09-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(07-09-2017 08:28 PM)Coveny Wrote:  For many years now I've felt like the world is losing its religion quite literally. Polls around the world show a trend of fewer and fewer theists. So much so that in some countries atheism is the majority. However on the global scale theism still dominates atheism. We do see the young are far less likely to be theists, and the numbers of atheists there lend support to my idea that theism is dying. So the question is this at what year do you think atheism will become the majority on the global stage?


Globally religion is growing. In China's there's more Christians than card carrying communist. Much of religions decline is reserved for the Western World.

Atheism is unlikely to ever dominate theism. Even among the non-religious, atheism only represents a handful of that population. Add to the fact the reproduction rates of theism, should leave little home for a future utopic world of atheists.

I think atheists also tend to lump their growth with the more pervasive growth of the non-religious, going as far as rebranding atheism from a belief that God doesn't exist, to the mere absence of this belief. But that population is an entirely different animal, more lost and bewildered by what to believe, not particularly drawn to the views of self identifying atheists, and not relating to the world of organized religion. Disenchanted and hopeless, meaning has evaded them. These are folks that find no common community with Dawkins, Dennett, and the other stuffy old rich white men that lead them.

In the real world the sort of atheists, that litter places like this forum, don't exist. I can go a good portion of my life in a popular US city, and never personally meet the type.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-09-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  In the real world the sort of atheists, that litter places like this forum, don't exist. I can go a good portion of my life in a popular US city, and never personally meet the type.

You would never know it if you did.
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09-09-2017, 02:17 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think atheists also tend to lump their growth with the more pervasive growth of the non-religious, going as far as rebranding atheism from a belief that God doesn't exist, to the mere absence of this belief.

Could you explain how these two are different:
1) a belief that god(s) doesn't exist
2) An absence in a believe that god(s) exists

To me it's a mutually exclusive dichotomy but maybe I'm missing the other options. You believe god(s) exist or you don't, the semantics of how you define the latter doesn't change the label. Or to put another way if you don't believe that something exists, then you must therefore believe that it doesn't exist...

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09-09-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Globally religion is growing. In China's there's more Christians than card carrying communist. Much of religions decline is reserved for the Western World.

Religion's decline is associated with education and advanced Western democracies.
The reason religion is growing, globally, is that Islam is growing, NOT Christianity.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-09-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 01:49 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  In the real world the sort of atheists, that litter places like this forum, don't exist. I can go a good portion of my life in a popular US city, and never personally meet the type.

You would never know it if you did.
Just so. I only know for sure that one of my acquaintances is an atheist, and we've never discussed it beyond that, so I couldn't tell you even if he's thought it through fully or not. That doesn't mean that half the people I know couldn't be atheists. It's just not something that comes up in the course of ordinary conversation. Particularly if you live, as I do, in an area where a lot of people aren't openly religious even if they're nominally believers (don't attend church often or at all, etc) it's hard to even guess at people's metaphysics.

And then there's the fact that just because someone DOES go to church, doesn't mean they're not an atheist. There are atheists that go to placate family members or to give them plausible deniability so they can stay in the closet, or for participation in some charitable activity or other non-theological and more social aspects of church, as I have been known to do occasionally.

And then there are people like my brother who don't believe the BS anymore and just don't want to admit it to themselves or follow through on the implications.

The fact is that atheism is a very narrow belief position about a very specific thing, and is not something you base your public persona on. Theists, especially fundamentalist theists, tend to imagine that all atheists are totally and without any nuance, anti-religious militants / activists rather than just ordinary schmucks trying to get through life. It's far easier for them to imagine that we HATE their god, than that we're INDIFFERENT to their god. (Let that last sentence sink in: the opposite of love, isn't hate, it's indifference. Hate is just disappointed love).

So if you could strip away all the defenses, deflections, rationalizations and lack of thinking in people, I suspect that even in the US, a third or more are at least technically atheists. I think the actual figure may be closer to half already. It's just that due to a vocal minority in society, it's not prudent for people to admit it -- to themselves, much less to anyone else.

In this sense I would be very wrong in my pessimistic take on when atheism will "take over" or "become the majority". We could unknowingly be at a tipping point where the ultimately tenuous hold theism has on hearts and minds suddenly implodes, and it only takes a generation or two past then to clear out the resulting societal wreckage. At least in pockets, there are ways this could happen much more quickly than I'm willing to bet.
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09-09-2017, 02:46 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 02:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Globally religion is growing. In China's there's more Christians than card carrying communist. Much of religions decline is reserved for the Western World.

Religion's decline is associated with education and advanced Western democracies.
The reason religion is growing, globally, is that Islam is growing, NOT Christianity.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

There's plenty of reasons why religion has declined in the Western World, and education doesn't seem be the driving force. In fact the declines are felt more steeply among white than non-whites, and males more than females. Young women tend to more educated than men, yet the opposite is true when it comes to religiosity. The Chinese population is increasingly become more educated, while at the same time becoming increasingly more Christian, much to the chagrin of the Chinese Government.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-09-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 02:17 PM)Coveny Wrote:  Could you explain how these two are different:
1) a belief that god(s) doesn't exist
2) An absence in a believe that god(s) exists

A mere absence of belief in God is a pure agnostic, while a belief that God doesn't exists puts you anywhere between a 5 and 6 on the Dawkins scale.

I merely lack a belief in whether you're married. Since I have little experience with you to assume one way or the other, where as I believe Bucky is not married (though not strongly).

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-09-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 02:40 PM)mordant Wrote:  Just so. I only know for sure that one of my acquaintances is an atheist, and we've never discussed it beyond that, so I couldn't tell you even if he's thought it through fully or not. That doesn't mean that half the people I know couldn't be atheists. It's just not something that comes up in the course of ordinary conversation. Particularly if you live, as I do, in an area where a lot of people aren't openly religious even if they're nominally believers (don't attend church often or at all, etc) it's hard to even guess at people's metaphysics.

Well unlike you, I do have conversations about religion with my acquaintances, plenty of them are non-religious. None of them are atheists. None of them believe that God does not exist. They're more or less confused, lost and bewildered, lacking a clear center, or any real sense meaning, all of which have evaded them.

It's not the people such as yourself are hiding in my pretty expansive social circle, they rarely exist, they're a niche, whose representatives are entirely unrelatable to most people. As much you might believe otherwise, folks such as yourself, are not representative of the zeitgeist of the non-religious, in fact your outliers.

Quote:And then there's the fact that just because someone DOES go to church, doesn't mean they're not an atheist.

The fact is that just because someone has trouble identifying with an organized religion, that they identify as non-religious doesn't make them atheists. Confused theists, and closeted are not atheists. In fact in my experience atheists have a hard time believe atheism, hence they reason that quite recently the stripped the label of belief, and sell it as a lack of belief. If there's a true testament of the death of atheism, is the retraction of atheism as the opposite of theism, stripping it of belief. They're only marginally better than theists who attempt sell christianity as not a religion, but a relationship, yada yada.

Quote:The fact is that atheism is a very narrow belief position about a very specific thing, and is not something you base your public persona on.

The thing that an atheists supposedly lacks a belief in (God) is not very narrow, it's actually quite encompassing and wide, and cast a long shadow. It requires a reimagining of the dominating religious worldview that pervades human life, to truly be an atheists, as opposed to some confused, or lost version of a theist.

For me to be an atheist, would require a quite expansive change in beliefs, and not just a believe in a single narrow thing as you put it.


Quote:So if you could strip away all the defenses, deflections, rationalizations and lack of thinking in people, I suspect that even in the US, a third or more are at least technically atheists.

Putting all the phonies rationalizations provided by anonymous atheists on the internet, atheists hardly even exist. 8% of self-identifying atheists claim to also believe that God exists. And many of them, in my experience are just confused as to what it is they believe.


Quote:I think the actual figure may be closer to half already. It's just that due to a vocal minority in society, it's not prudent for people to admit it -- to themselves, much less to anyone else.

And I think you're out of touch if this is your belief. You should perhaps venture out and get acquainted with those friends of yours who don't talk with you about their beliefs. You project what you see here as representative of the larger shifts in the population. The reality outside these walls is vastly different.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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