Poll: What year do you think atheism will become the global majority
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What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
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11-09-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
I don't know that it will. Religiosity thrives on inequality, and inequality's rising in First World countries, too.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/epiphenom/2...is-it.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/20...ality.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-j-pa...59949.html
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11-09-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(10-09-2017 08:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 04:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The tendency is to inflate this number by appealing to the number of non-religious, as well as the 5% or so of those who claim not believe in God, but don’t self identify as atheists.

My view based on my own experience, talking with a good amount of people across the country who identify as such, is that they’re not atheists, just confused theists.

Bullshit. You have no evidence any numbers are inflated. This is nothing but bias. My own view is that people (exactly LIKE YOU) who claim to be theists, and Christians, are not really what they claim. YOU claim you are Christian but need no Jesus. YOU are the confused one here. You just made up your own cult, Tomato and call it Christianity. It is not.

"A good amount a people". LMAO. Anecdotal bullshit.

Self identified atheists and those who do not believe in God are two different things.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americ...e-god.aspx

Here we see 10% of Americans explicitly do not believe in God. Gallup has been pretty consistent on this several years running. We see the same pattern elsewhere, in France for example, more people admit not believing in God than being self identified atheists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/way...e-thought/

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11-09-2017, 04:12 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(10-09-2017 04:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 03:02 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Uh... you do realise that this is primarily an atheist forum, and that your use of the pejorative "litter" indicates your underlying antagonism towards us don't you? Maybe not.

No I didn’t realize that at the time I used the term. I thought it could be used synonymously with the term “filled”. So I apologize, I didn’t mean that to be offensive.

Fair enough; not a problem. Smile

Quote:Philadelphia.

According to a Sperling's BestPlaces 2017 report, 49.46% of the people in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania are religious, meaning they affiliate with a religion. Does this not imply that 50.54% have no religion, and that a large proportion of them may be atheists?

Quote:Even in the US self identifying atheists such as yourself in some surveys like the Pew account for about 1% of the US population.

I'm not sure from where you got this 1% figure for the US (citation?) but according to a 2017 Pew Report - Religion Landscape Study, the non-religious breakdown for the US is as follows:

Sample size —35,000 across 50 states,

Atheist 3.1%
• Agnostic 4.0%

• Nothing in particular 15.8%
• Don't know 0.6%

These figures could possibly imply that up to 19.5% of the US population may in fact be atheist (excluding agnostics).

Quote:The tendency is to inflate this number by appealing to the number of non-religious, as well as the 5% or so of those who claim not believe in God, but don’t self identify as atheists.

I really think you're splitting hairs here Tom: If you don't "believe in God" or gods, then by common definition you are an atheist. Believing in gods requires one—obviously—to accept the existence of supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena, which a non-believer, of any style, does not.

Quote:My view based on my own experience, talking with a good amount of people across the country who identify as such, is that they’re not atheists, just confused theists.

Please define a "good amount". This phrase is what's known as weasel words used when one can't cite actual figures, or an accredited citation. So... 300 or 30 people? And there is no such thing as a "confused" theist; you either believe in the existence of gods or you don't. It's a simple choice, and doesn't or can't lead to any confusion.

Quote:Some of this is more pronounced in surveys were many of those who claim to not believe in God, tend to believe in a “higher power” or “life force”.

Straw man. This has nothing to do with atheism.

Quote:The alternative view here is that the number of atheists are much larger and unaccounted for, because of the socials fears.

Agreed—at least for the US. As an Aussie living in a country defined by secularism, I just don't know why Americans are still so wrapped up in the outmoded tenets of Christianity. Such as printing "In God We Trust" on its currency for the last 150 years FFS.

A 2012 Win-Gallup International poll found that 48% of Australians claimed no religion; 37% were religious; and 10% were "convinced atheists".
And at our 2016 Federal Census, non-religious Australians outnumber Catholics—the country's biggest religion—for the first time. Thumbsup

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-09-2017, 04:16 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2017 04:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 02:46 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 02:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Religion's decline is associated with education and advanced Western democracies.
The reason religion is growing, globally, is that Islam is growing, NOT Christianity.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

There's plenty of reasons why religion has declined in the Western World, and education doesn't seem be the driving force. In fact the declines are felt more steeply among white than non-whites, and males more than females. Young women tend to more educated than men, yet the opposite is true when it comes to religiosity. The Chinese population is increasingly become more educated, while at the same time becoming increasingly more Christian, much to the chagrin of the Chinese Government.

All meaningless speculation without references.
You give none of the reasons you SPECULATE religion has declined in the West, among males.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-09-2017, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2017 05:27 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(09-09-2017 02:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  A mere absence of belief in God is a pure agnostic, while a belief that God doesn't exists puts you anywhere between a 5 and 6 on the Dawkins scale.

No. Completely false.
You need to look up the definition of agnostic.
Today it means "I do NOT KNOW if there is a god or not.
Classically, it meant "We are unable to know if there is a god or not".

I couldn't care less about a Dawkins scale.
The notion of a god existing is as preposterous as the notion of pink sparkly unicorns existing. Therefore I am an igtheist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism
There is no reason to take any formal position AT ALL (for, against, or, on an ability to know) towards a notion that is undefined and preposterous.
It is dismissed without taking ANY position. There is no reason to do so. Taking a position on the gods grants the notion a certain validity that needs the (small) affirmation of denial. I won't EVEN go there.

It is highly amusing that theists claim we are "made for belief" or "predisposed" for belief, (as though that is a good thing), all the while claiming we are born needing redemption and inherently sinful (a thing that needs to be remedied by religion ... a bad thing). So here we have religionists talking out of both sides of their mouths. What is natural (a claimed god predisposition) is used to justify what they claim as good, AND what is equally inherently natural is ALSO said to BE BAD, used to justify the need for religion. So which is it ? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

World-wide, the VAST preponderance of belief stystems in adults, is that people simply buy into the indoctrination in which they are raised. BY FAR. That means that whatever silly religion they are taught as children, they continue to believe. ALL the religion statistics are colored by that fact. People in general do not chose what belief system they want to live with, BY FAR. They simply buy into the nonsense they are taught as children.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-09-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(11-09-2017 04:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 02:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  A mere absence of belief in God is a pure agnostic, while a belief that God doesn't exists puts you anywhere between a 5 and 6 on the Dawkins scale.

No. Completely false.
You need to look up the definition of agnostic.
Today it means "I do NOT KNOW if there is a god or not.
Classically, it meant "We are unable to know if there is a god or not".
Atheist means one does not believe in God. One can be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time.

Agnostic: "I do not see enough evidence God exists to believe in God, Though I may not be able to disprove all definined gods".

Thomas Huxley - Who defined agnosticism

I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel.
Letter to Charles Kingsley (6 May 1863).

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11-09-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(10-09-2017 07:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:All you gotta do is look in the mirror without giving a shit how your hair looks.

Ah, I do care a lot about how my hair looks, so it’s cool you knew that.

Because you're a deist, duh. Vanity is a trait common to most deists. Funny thing is, you're going to spend your entire life looking for God, only to realize moments before your death that you were looking for God in all the wrong places and now it's too late. And then you'll just be gone *poof*. And then you will shit and piss yourself.

#sigh
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11-09-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(11-09-2017 04:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Thomas Huxley - Who defined agnosticism

He did not. He invented the word.
The concept FAR FAR FAR predated him.

Wiki :
"Agnostic thought, in the form of skepticism, emerged as a formal philosophical position in ancient Greece. Its proponents included Protagoras, Pyrrho, Carneades, Sextus Empiricus[37] and, to some degree, Socrates, who was a strong advocate for a skeptical approach to epistemology.[38]

Pyrrho said that we should refrain from making judgment as we can never know the true reality. According to Pyrrho, having opinion was possible, but certainty and knowledge are impossible.[39] Carneades was also a skeptic in relation to all knowledge claims. He proposed a probability theory, however. According to him, certainty could never be attained.[40] Protagoras rejected the conventional accounts of the gods. He said:[8]

Concerning the gods, I have no means of knowing whether they exist or not or of what sort they may be. Many things prevent knowledge including the obscurity of the subject and the brevity of human life.

Hindu philosophy[edit]
See also: Sanjaya Belatthaputta
Throughout the history of Hinduism there has been a strong tradition of philosophic speculation and skepticism.

The Rig Veda takes an agnostic view on the fundamental question of how the universe and the gods were created. Nasadiya Sukta (Creation Hymn) in the tenth chapter of the Rig Veda says:

Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?


Hume, Kant, and Kierkegaard[edit]
Aristotle, Anselm, Aquinas, and Descartes presented arguments attempting to rationally prove the existence of God. The skeptical empiricism of David Hume, the antinomies of Immanuel Kant, and the existential philosophy of Søren Kierkegaard convinced many later philosophers to abandon these attempts, regarding it impossible to construct any unassailable proof for the existence or non-existence of God.

In his 1844 book, Philosophical Fragments, Kierkegaard writes:

Let us call this unknown something: God. It is nothing more than a name we assign to it. The idea of demonstrating that this unknown something (God) exists, could scarcely suggest itself to Reason. For if God does not exist it would of course be impossible to prove it; and if he does exist it would be folly to attempt it. For at the very outset, in beginning my proof, I would have presupposed it, not as doubtful but as certain (a presupposition is never doubtful, for the very reason that it is a presupposition), since otherwise I would not begin, readily understanding that the whole would be impossible if he did not exist. But if when I speak of proving God's existence I mean that I propose to prove that the Unknown, which exists, is God, then I express myself unfortunately. For in that case I do not prove anything, least of all an existence, but merely develop the content of a conception."

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11-09-2017, 05:29 PM
What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(11-09-2017 04:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All meaningless speculation without references.
You give none of the reasons you SPECULATE religion has declined in the West, among males.

No, I gave reason to be doubtful of the suggestion that the cause is education.




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2017, 06:45 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2017 06:51 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population
(11-09-2017 05:29 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-09-2017 04:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All meaningless speculation without references.
You give none of the reasons you SPECULATE religion has declined in the West, among males.

No, I gave reason to be doubtful of the suggestion that the cause is education.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No you didn't. That fact that YOU are doubtful is irrelevant.
It's not a reason to be doubtful without supporting documentation.
Without it, it's nothing but (the fallacy of) an argument from personal incredulity.
The picture is far more complex than you implied.
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/the-g...the-world/

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