What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
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08-04-2012, 02:30 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
I hear you Leela.

To ban him, it seems to me there has to be a rule he has breached. Do you think he has done that?

If he hasn't , should the rules be changed?

Do you think the rule should be that Lucradis should ban him based on his own judgement?


Or, do you think the rule should be that Lucradis should ban him because enough people have complained about him?

What I am saying is...make it easier for Lucradis by proposing what you think the rules for banning should be. He can then discuss this with other moderators and then hopefully come to a consensus.

If I was Lucradis, and was considering banning someone, I would like to think I was enforcing the rules of the forum, whatever they may be, not just reacting to an appeal, no matter how attractive it may sound.
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08-04-2012, 02:46 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
I see a lot of growling between two camps here.

On the one side there's the more live and let live camp, and on the other the more militant crowd.

The LLLs support this vague "free speech" thing and seem to generally have their heads up their asses.

The MAs are very clear on what they want - MOAR RULEZ! Oh yeah, and an acknowledgement from the LLLs that indeed they are a bunch of pussies.

Just to be clear, I'm with the LLLs Wink
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08-04-2012, 03:59 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
I don't aggree morondog.
I am generally of the LLLs but once I get pissed of I am pissed off, and when I see where the problem lies I want to help and solve it. "MOAR RULEZ" sounds very negative. Doesn't have to be more, just the right ones that allow the team to react properly.

@MarkFulton: I wrote lucradis a pm proposing a little chat. It is his desicion to react to it or not. I will not try and force stuff on him but a discussion about rule change etc just works faster and smoother if you just have a chat about it. I have administrated my own forum in the past and I had a ruleset that allowed my team and me to at least ban the worst trolls. And that has happened twice in the whole time my forum was up. So it is not like you are hovering over people with a ban hammer. A ban is always the last instance. And I have moderated in big chat rooms with many hundrets of users and also there was a rule set that allowed to ban the worst trolls. Noone felt threatened or limited in their free speech. I don't see why this would not be possible here.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-04-2012, 04:23 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
At first I was pretty riled up as well over all this Egor shit. For the most part I've come to realize that he posts some of the stuff he says to see what sort of responses he will get. I think this is because perhaps he's curious about how we feel about stuff. Other times I think it's just to be controversial etc... he is who he is.

After reading BuddyChrist's comments and Ludacris' comments on the matter I have to agree with them... it isn't out of the rules, it's still within the rules. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean that the person should be banned.

KC has become a good member, well engaged with the community. Egor has some stuff that is good for discussion and other stuff which often times pisses me off to the point that I just don't respond anymore. That's all you really have to do if you don't like something, just don't read on or don't respond. Sometimes you just have to know when to step away from the keyboard and take a break and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm glad we have people like BC and Ludacris that can keep us in check on the rules and make points that they've made on this thread.
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08-04-2012, 04:27 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2012 04:55 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
Gee this is complex.

I'll think I'll just pour a bourbon and coke, and propose a toast to the weasel jesus...he did one good thing in my opinion....gave the world an excuse to have a public holiday tomorrow.
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08-04-2012, 05:09 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
it is not about aggreeing or disaggreeing. I had heated discussions before, here and in other forums. A heated discussions is great, you can learn from it, both sides can learn from it. But as I said before, if someone in a forum is causing so many members discomfort I would think about what or who is more important for me as administrator of the place.
Is one troll more important than the peace in a forum? I don't think so, but that's just me.
As I said, I am not even reading the theist topics anymore because I would be so pissed of if Egor came a long and destroy it while I try to enjoy.
So I found a solution for myself, but still it is not a solution for the forum and for the future.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-04-2012, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2012 06:40 AM by FSM_scot.)
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
Mark we are re writing the rules they are the same with a bit more definition to what we mean. It's a work in progress we have been doing it since last week.

Leela what do you suggest? That we abandon free speech and just ban anyone who says something we don't like? If so prepare to see many of our atheist members go.

I'm sorry but we can't have one rule for people we don't like and another for the rest of the members we aren't that kind of forum. If people can't accept that then tough.

Behold the power of the force!
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08-04-2012, 06:00 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
I can agree with that. If we start creating rules to flush out one person we don't like then the rules will become more and more stringent until we end up being something we didn't want to be in the first place.

We share a lack of belief in god in common as atheists, but it doesn't mean all of our views will be shared in the same. We should be able to have varied opinions, agree to disagree (even if it is blunt or not something we want to hear). If we're not able to discuss, then what is really being contributed? It's a good point to be made.

I understand that people probably don't agree with all of my view points and I accept that. It makes me happy when others and myself can see eye to eye but I'm here to learn from others, learn more about myself and my world view. I didn't expect to come to a place where everyone is exactly the same.

Even all the denominations of christianity can't come to agreement, how many denominations are there in varied views, translations and interpretations? So I can't expect all atheists to have the exact same opinions on stuff.

As much as I still am not a fan of Egor... he's just as entitled to the rules as the rest of us.
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08-04-2012, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2012 06:53 AM by Hughsie.)
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
Whoa Leela, some of that is a little unfair.

Bear in mind that freedom of speech is one of the things that everyone trumpets about this place. Just like everyone did after the WCF incident. I know we have members who love the freedom of speech we allow. Some people here have joined from other forums because they want to avoid the moderation.

I'm not referring to you here but I find it ridiculous for anyone here to spend half their time talking about how great the freedom of speech is, and the other half screaming for someone they don't like to be banned. It's almost beginning to feel like that at times.

If there was a rule against being abusive then we'd have banned half the forum by now. Disagreements spring up quite regularly and sometimes they flare up. I don't think it's a bad thing, it shows people are passionate. It wouldn't be fair to treat Egor differently to everyone else just because he's unpopular.

Take Mr Woof and MJB, they had a very open spat over in politics. If we set the precedent by banning Egor then how is that fair on Woof? MJB is a total jackass, how could we justify getting rid of Egor but keeping MJB to Woof? MJB may have taken offence to some comments by Woof, how can we justify to him keeping Woof? I noticed in another thread Ghost lost his temper with Quidsane, he went further than Egor ever has. How could we not ban him? Me and Germanyt have been pretty close to getting into disputes with antirepublican, we'd all be facing a ban if it boiled over. I know KC has had disagreements with various people when they have been overzealous in attacking him, Chas and Malleus to name just two. Should they all be banned?

Do you see my point? One ban has a knock on effect, it sets a precedent that has to be upheld.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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08-04-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 03:59 AM)Leela Wrote:  I don't aggree morondog.
I am generally of the LLLs but once I get pissed of I am pissed off, and when I see where the problem lies I want to help and solve it. "MOAR RULEZ" sounds very negative. Doesn't have to be more, just the right ones that allow the team to react properly.
You're right - I regret the choice of words.
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