What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
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08-04-2012, 03:44 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 03:35 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Love is Void

I hear you brother.

(08-04-2012 03:35 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All these other words are me spanking the monkey, but it does seem my life is forever after justified in three little words. Hear 'em from me, I did my fucking job. Then I can shut the hell up. Amirite?

Well, it'd get pretty boring pretty quick if we did.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-04-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 03:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-04-2012 03:35 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All these other words are me spanking the monkey, but it does seem my life is forever after justified in three little words. Hear 'em from me, I did my fucking job. Then I can shut the hell up. Amirite?

Well, it'd get pretty boring pretty quick if we did.

Fuck or get fucked, the purpose of life; the purpose of human life is to be entertained. The problem of being an evolved animal is in finding bloodsport entertaining. Thing about my Gwynnies (being like god) is that she ain't my Gwynnies - we can all have a piece of her as long as Chris ain't here to regulate. And like god, she has been marketed and produced. If I was here pimping my wife, I'd be a pimp. I'm pimping Chris's wife; that makes me a prophet. Big Grin

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08-04-2012, 06:03 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 07:53 AM)Leela Wrote:  
(08-04-2012 05:38 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Leela what do you suggest? That we abandon free speech and just ban anyone who says something we don't like? If so prepare to see many of our atheist members go.
(08-04-2012 06:06 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Whoa Leela, some of that is a little unfair.
Bear in mind that freedom of speech is one of the things .....

I am writing and writing and people keep misunderstanding.
I said with no word at all that I would like free speech in this forum gone. Not once!
What I said was "don't hide behind freedom of speech".
All you need is a proper rule set and as lucradis isn't reacting to pm anyway, k here we go:
Just as example what it could look like:

No spam
No trolling and/or bullying
Keep conversations on a civil level. (heated discussion ok, violent behaviour is not ok)
No advertisement without permission
No links to websites with illegal content (this forum is hosted in the US so illegal as for US standards)

Enforced like this:
First rule break: informal warning via pm/mail
Second rule break: formal warning via pm/mail and open in a dedicated threat that everyone can read which includes the reason for the official warning. (this is so noone can be like "but what did she do???")
Third rule break: Ban for 1 week + Mail with explanation.
After the week, the user is still under observation and should there be another rule breaking, perma ban.
After every "step" of this enforcing, there is some time of observation and if it gets better one step is removed... sounds weird. let's say you keep the warning levels
then first rulebreak you are on 20 percent
second you are on 40 percent
and so on.
If you do better after a warning you get your warning level down step by step. 20 percent at a time.

Attach a netiquette as a guideline (not as a rule).
Everyone knows what spam and trolling is, everyone knows how to keep a conversation on a civil level. Just online people use the oportunity to not do it and play stupid.
If someone honestly doesn't know those terms, well attach a little FAQ under the rules.
No room for misunderstanding.

Think about it. This is a really small ruleset and it can work just fine. And uber-trolls have no chance. Everyone rants every now and then and with this ruleset it wouldn't be a problem. Only intentional bad behaviour would be "rewarded" with a ban because if you are able to ignore warnings that tell you what you did wrong, you are obviously here to make trouble. And if you come back after a short ban and keep going you really earned it, don't you think.
It sounds like loads of work but there aren't exactly a lot of trolls here and you are a big-ish team.

What I did back when I administrated my own forum.
Before a warning was given I started a threat about the user in the team forum (invisible for "normal" users). I would ask the other two admins and the moderators what they think about the user and his behaviour and if I am maybe too harsh or anything.
So we banned two users within two years and they did really bad stuff (one for example contacted all younger female members and proposed sexual actions). So it was not easy to get banned as the whole team would discuss it first.

Does this really sound so unreasonable?
It all sounds good to me. Particularly if the rules are well known and well defined. Only problem is the work issue. I'm sticking my nose in here....but....why not make Leela one of the moderators (if she wants)?
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08-04-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 06:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It all sounds good to me. Particularly if the rules are well known and well defined. Only problem is the work issue. I'm sticking my nose in here....but....why not make Leela one of the moderators (if she wants)?
No thanks, I am fine. I didn't post all this to sneak my way into the team. I gave up my forum and two moderator positions within the last 2.5 years and I am happy this way. I understand well that being a part of the team can be a job some times, I respect those who do it and like it, but I do not have the time anymore.
I just wanted to offer some solutions, or at least some hints for a good direction.
that's all.
But I will take that as a compliement, thanks.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-04-2012, 06:22 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 04:24 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fuck or get fucked, the purpose of life; the purpose of human life is to be entertained. ... Thing about my Gwynnies (being like god) is that she ain't my Gwynnies -

And here all along I thought that you was just pointing out how arbitrary and silly it was to associate a symbol with a meaning. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-04-2012, 06:24 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 08:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(08-04-2012 07:53 AM)Leela Wrote:  Does this really sound so unreasonable?

Letting the women write the rulez, yeah that's reasonable. Thumbsup

Nah, but it is a patriarchy kinda thing. I'm an Amazon; the chicks should be the warriors, they're evolved for it. They're not tested in blood, but I am a prophet of the matriarchy. You decide. Cool

Another problem is you're Leela. Egor wasn't a problem until he was Leela's problem. Gotta keep an eye on that evolution shit. Thumbsup
(08-04-2012 07:53 AM)Leela Wrote:  No spam
No trolling and/or bullying

OK.
Fuck that. Maybe it's because I'm a guy, but no trolling/bullying is no go. Imma evolved fucking troll. Big Grin
I don't think you're serious are you HOC? Surely you're not turning this into some sort of sexist thing? Also, Egor is not just Leela's issue. There are many people who have been hurt to their core by him.

Bullying is a good word to describe his behaviour. This concept of giving people a formal warning or 3 before they get banned seems good to me. It gives the offender a chance to have a look at him/her self, read the rules, maybe say they are sorry etc etc. It gives people who have been offended a mechanism (at least in theory) by which they can express their opinion...rather than leave the discussion.
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08-04-2012, 06:43 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
oh yes, I missed that. I didn't start the whole Egor fuzz... just saying. I simply stopped attending threats where he stuck his nose in. And I did that without comment. I brought it up when others started talking about it because before that I thought I am alone with my opinion about him.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-04-2012, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2012 06:54 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 06:24 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I don't think you're serious are you HOC? Surely you're not turning this into some sort of sexist thing?
All things have gender, Mark. How can one be an evolutionist without knowing sex runs at an instinctual level?

Serious only happens when someone threatens my Gwynnies. There is a link between you and my Gwynnies. Things get complicated from the moment I choose fight over flight.

I get hurt to the core by bacteria in my environment. Everything is sexual because everything is evolutionary, sequence, sensitive dependence on initial conditions.

(08-04-2012 06:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And here all along I thought that you was just pointing out how arbitrary and silly it was to associate a symbol with a meaning. Wink

Perfected in absurdity by god's sufficient comedy. It's in Romans somewhere. Wink

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08-04-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 08:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-04-2012 08:47 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  can you please link to the posts you feel he is bullying a member and if he is he will be removed.
um... not in current rules? consistency plz Wink at least get ratified with Luc. I think many of Egor's posts could easily be classed as bullying, depending how you read em, an no I'm not gonna go look em up Tongue, but then, as you say, in fairness you'd have to ban a bunch of us Tongue
There are no rules currently against bullying that I can see anyway.

If there were I would have felt there was some mechanism to deal with him, rather than me return in same. I would not have lowered myself, and the standard of discussion on this forum, if there had been some other way to deal with him ruining the tone of the place and offending people.

I admit I "bullied" Egor. I've never done that to anyone before in my 9 months here. I only resorted to it because someone had to try to stop the abuse.

FSM Scott, you keep saying he hasn't bullied anyone. Mark Fulton, Leela, Lilth, Clint and numerous others disagree with you. I can't possibly, again, document it all, I'll be told to shut up. If you threaten people with hell, call all atheists ignorant, refer to people as maggots etc etc, claim you "have" someone's girlfriend in a minute you are a bully.You need to reread what he's written.
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08-04-2012, 06:58 PM
RE: What degree of abuse or threat is acceptable?
(08-04-2012 06:43 PM)Leela Wrote:  oh yes, I missed that. I didn't start the whole Egor fuzz... just saying.

But arguing with Leela in a Fulton thread trumps crediting Egor any day. Thumbsup

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