What difference does it make?
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18-09-2012, 06:15 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
(18-09-2012 06:12 AM)frankiej Wrote:  Why tell us you are going to do it? If you wanted to talk about suicide them you could have done that without telling us that you actually planned to do it. Putting a downer on everyone's day is exactly the best way to go about things.

I would have imagined that you would want to have as little impact on others as you can with this.

I am just wondering why you felt the need to announce it to a bunch of strangers.

EDIT: Aaaand he leaves before I post my reply... goddammit.

Cause I see a lot of threads which state that atheism is related to suicide.
I say that it is not. Also I don't think religion does any good to prevent suicide. There are 80 year old christian people who kill themselves. Makes no difference.
And atheism prolonged my life as I stated above. So I am making good defense for atheism. As for me well not everyone can have a normal life. Some people have it great while other people are in a state of a living death. It's just bad luck and determinism as Sam Harris had stated.
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18-09-2012, 06:18 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
I just think that getting strangers emotionally involved isn't cool, man. Tongue

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18-09-2012, 06:19 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
These also show that religion creates suffering for the suicide survivors.
http://forum.forsuicidesurvivors.com/vie...=18&t=6985
http://forum.forsuicidesurvivors.com/vie...f=4&t=8779

Hard for relatives to think their loved one is in hell.
I think only realization that person no longer exists allows to let go of the deceased and move on with their lives.
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18-09-2012, 07:42 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
You obviously feel like you have good reasons... I just... *I've* wanted to suicide before. Now I don't. Can you not just... talk about your problems? Before you go do something irreversible?
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18-09-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
(18-09-2012 06:18 AM)frankiej Wrote:  I just think that getting strangers emotionally involved isn't cool, man. Tongue

A small sacrifice when one considers the fact that theists like to point to instances of atheists who've offed themselves as "proof" that Atheism leads to sadness and hopelessness and suicide.

It's understandable that he'd want to make it known that his intentions (if genuine) have nothing to do with the fact that he's an atheist. That way he can die peacefully, knowing that he made it very clear that Atheism was not a significant factor in his decision. In reality, this may help make things easier for us (atheists) in the future, because he took steps to prevent himself from being another example of the "hopelessness" of Atheism.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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18-09-2012, 08:13 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
About 3000 people in the US will die today. The same more or less will die tomorrow and every day after. Multiple causes, car wrecks, old age, viruses, bad parenting, murder and suicide.
I can understand if you've lost your legs and your arms or maybe you're a psychopath and desire to harm other people and killing yourself is a way to help prevent that.
Maybe you're a suicide bomber and you're starting with yourself first. I applaud that kind of humanity. Wish they all would do that.

Given that you seem to be able to type fairly well and make coherent sentences, I'm going to guess that both arms are in tact and you're simply depressed about your life.
I've been through suicide and I've helped a few others who were at the brink of it. They are now living full, happy and healthy lives.
One girl just had a modeling photo shoot yesterday and has a good life with a new boyfriend.
She had been raped and when the man she was madly in love with found out, he dumped her in the worst way possible.
Her pain had instantly been doubled and it was more than she could bare.

Her and I talked for hours each day. She went through drugs like candy to numb the pain. She drank until she was drunk most days.
It took months but eventually she came out the other side and got better. It wasn't easy, but she made it.

If you survive from your suicide, you will have proven Sam Harris wrong. You will have proven that we do have free will.
You will have proven that we aren't simply products of our past experiences. You will have proven that we can make tough choices.
Prove him wrong and write down all of your experiences from this day forward.

You are not a puppet. You are a person. Only you can decide.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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18-09-2012, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2012 08:25 AM by Runner500.)
RE: What difference does it make?
(18-09-2012 07:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  You obviously feel like you have good reasons... I just... *I've* wanted to suicide before. Now I don't. Can you not just... talk about your problems? Before you go do something irreversible?

The irreversible has happened long ago.
When my parents divorced(before I was born) my father won the court battle over me and took me with him. However he locked me in my room and didn't let me out for over a year. Didn't let me socialize or do anything else. Just gave me bunch of toys and food everyday.
This went on for 1.5 years till social workers took me away.
That way my brain developed in a different way and I was left an emotional cripple.
I am unable to socialize, oversensitive and paranoid. Doctors are unable to do anything because it is passive brain damage instead of an active one. And because it happened during my first year it is pretty much irreversible.
I get panic attacks when in crowd, get paranoid about people invading my space, obsessive thoughts and nightmares which never go away, loneliness, unable to make friends and get a girlfriend and get along with people.
I was a loner since birth and always will be. So basically I am condemned to live rest of my life in loneliness and suffering which I just don't want to.

Besides I read another Sam Harris book called Moral Landscape and based on it I created my own theory of "shitty landscape".
If you take 1 million people there will be 1000 of most happy ones and 1000 of most miserable ones. Many of those miserable people are completely fucked up with no hope. Unfortunately no hope for a lot of em. And some people say they should be helped but help can only get you so far. We should ask them if they are willing to put up with what they have to deal with and if they are unable to do that we should allow them to die if they wish to do so.
No matter what we do there will be people on the short end of the stick and many of them will not be able to handle it.

Ted Kaczynski the unabomber suffered similar thing and that's why he lived the life that he lived.
I was angry person before and thought to do something which would harm others but then I calmed down and decided to take my own life instead since I will never be able to live a good life with the brain condition I have.
I am jealous of others but not angry.
Each person has limits of what they will put up with.

Everything is the consequence of what has happened before.
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18-09-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
(18-09-2012 08:13 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  About 3000 people in the US will die today. The same more or less will die tomorrow and every day after. Multiple causes, car wrecks, old age, viruses, bad parenting, murder and suicide.
I can understand if you've lost your legs and your arms or maybe you're a psychopath and desire to harm other people and killing yourself is a way to help prevent that.
Maybe you're a suicide bomber and you're starting with yourself first. I applaud that kind of humanity. Wish they all would do that.

Given that you seem to be able to type fairly well and make coherent sentences, I'm going to guess that both arms are in tact and you're simply depressed about your life.
I've been through suicide and I've helped a few others who were at the brink of it. They are now living full, happy and healthy lives.
One girl just had a modeling photo shoot yesterday and has a good life with a new boyfriend.
She had been raped and when the man she was madly in love with found out, he dumped her in the worst way possible.
Her pain had instantly been doubled and it was more than she could bare.

Her and I talked for hours each day. She went through drugs like candy to numb the pain. She drank until she was drunk most days.
It took months but eventually she came out the other side and got better. It wasn't easy, but she made it.

If you survive from your suicide, you will have proven Sam Harris wrong. You will have proven that we do have free will.
You will have proven that we aren't simply products of our past experiences. You will have proven that we can make tough choices.
Prove him wrong and write down all of your experiences from this day forward.

You are not a puppet. You are a person. Only you can decide.

While your words are valid, unfortunately, they do not apply to everyone.

Some people aren't doing it because of some pain that they can't bear. Some people are simply tired of living in this world, and wish to take their leave. It's not an upsetting decision; it's not a last resort when they feel that things are collapsing down around them. For some, it's no different than standing up, jingling their keys and telling their friends that the party was fun, but that it's time to head out.

It may be difficult to understand how someone can be so cavalier about it, but that's just how it is for them. I know this because I myself am in a similar state of mind. With me, however, there is still a bit of partying I'd like to do. I've not yet had a go at the punch bowl and I intend to get in on the game of beer pong in the corner. Plus, there are a lot of fine-ass women at this party, and I'm gonna have a go at a few of them. I don't know how long I'll stay and party, but eventually, I do intend to casually make my exit.

If this gentleman is anything like me, this is not a decision that he's upset about. It's not something he needs any sort of "help" with, because nothing is really wrong. He's simply done partying, and is ready to leave.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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18-09-2012, 08:40 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
I won't prove Sam Harris wrong if I don't commit suicide.
The idea of free will is that we are not independent of the laws of physics.
The thing is that if I don't commit suicide I need to live rest of my life which will be miserable because of who I have become. I won't be able to have girlfriend or any other things normal people have not to mention nightmares and paranoia.
Of course it will be hard to grasp for many of you but having underdeveloped brain is just as bad as being blind or not having limbs if not worse. It's just so that you can't see it unless you walk in my shoes.
I would be happy atheist if things were different but they are not.
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18-09-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: What difference does it make?
In that case, re-invent yourself.
Remove the personality and past memories you have and create a new one of your own making.
This is a way that you can kill yourself and yet still be alive to enjoy life for a while longer.

Take the person you are and erase it all. Reconstruct your life. Give yourself a new identity.
You were born in a small town to a nice couple who raised you well. You played sports and did great in school.
You moved out on your own at 18 and you've been on your own ever since.

Try this for one week. Really write down as much as you can about your new life, about the new you.
When you talk to people, talk to them as this new person. Tell them about your childhood in casual conversations.
If you have some close friends, tell them exactly what you are doing. Tell them you are creating a new you and you hope it will help you to climb the mountains the old you couldn't.

Start today. Start erasing your past and building a new life for yourself.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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