What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
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16-10-2011, 06:48 PM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(09-10-2011 04:00 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  See, there are two major classes of physical adaptation in the world of nature:
A - the obviously good and useful
B - other (inconvenient, frivolous, hard to explain, anachronistic, vestigial, counter-intuitive)

Class A proves intelligent design
Class B proves that God works in mysterious ways, and we just do not understand its purpose.
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17-10-2011, 06:23 AM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(16-10-2011 12:22 PM)Germanatheist007 Wrote:  A more interesting question would be: What would a truly intellegently designed body look like... ?

Interesting question. Has there ever been a study on this?
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17-10-2011, 06:34 AM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(17-10-2011 06:23 AM)free2011 Wrote:  
(16-10-2011 12:22 PM)Germanatheist007 Wrote:  A more interesting question would be: What would a truly intellegently designed body look like... ?

Interesting question. Has there ever been a study on this?
I think the Well of Souls (scifi) series (Jack Chalker) has an interesting take on this idea.
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17-10-2011, 10:31 AM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(16-10-2011 10:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(15-10-2011 10:58 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(15-10-2011 07:42 AM)BnW Wrote:  What kind of intelligent designer creates a species that can die during reproduction? A hateful, sadistic one is the answer, I guess.

The problem isn't with how we are designed but with how sin has impaired the original design.

Did sin create the appendix? How about the coccyx bone? What about the Vomeronasal Organ which serves no purpose in modern humans but may have once been used to detect pheromones? Did sin cause the Neck Rib that occurs in ~.05% of all humans? What horror did we commit to get us that useless third eyelid?

This will be the third time I've asked you about the roughly 80 vestigial evolutionary remains in the human body that have no purpose in modern humans. Can you please explain these without evolution?

This reminds me of a child I looked after when I was younger. She had surgery at birth from a cleft lip and she had extra nub-like fingers by her pinky that were also removed, both are common occurrences as birth defects. From a creationist POV should these have been left and not 'fixed' with modern science? Should she have paid for sin this way? She seemed and still is so sweet.
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17-10-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(16-10-2011 10:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  This will be the third time I've asked you about the roughly 80 vestigial evolutionary remains in the human body that have no purpose in modern humans. Can you please explain these without evolution?

Have you considered the possibility that these organs have a purpose but we simply haven't discovered it yet?

Quote:In the past, evolutionists claimed that there were approximately 180 vestigial organs in humans, including the appendix, the tonsils, the pineal gland and the thymus. Now we know that:

■The appendix is part of the immune system, strategically located at the entrance of the almost sterile ileum from the colon with its normally high bacterial content.

■The tonsils have a similar function in the entrance to the pharynx.

■The pineal gland secretes malatonin which is a hormone that regulates the circadian rhythm and has other functions.

■The thymus is part of the immune system, related to T-cells. HIV attacks T-cells, rendering them ineffective and for this reason is always eventually fatal.

The number of organs that once were believed to be functional in the evolutionary past of humans but are non-functional today has been steadily reduced as the fields of anatomy and physiology have progressed. Few examples of vestigial organs in humans are now offered, and the ones that are have been shown by more recent research to be completely functional (and in many cases critically so, see Bergman and Howe).

The idea of vestigial organs in humans also is discussed in popular books on science and medicine, whose authors frequently admit that the common examples no longer are considered as valid. One popular book on the human body which discussed vestigial organs stated that next to circumcision

‘… tonsillectomy is the most frequently performed piece of surgery. Doctors once thought tonsils were simply useless evolutionary leftovers and took them out thinking that it could do no harm. Today there is considerable evidence that there are more troubles in the upper respiratory tract after tonsil removal than before, and doctors generally agree that simple enlargement of tonsils is hardly an indication for surgery [emphasis in original].’

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles.../vestigial

You can find out more about this subject here:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...ial-organs

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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17-10-2011, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 12:35 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
(17-10-2011 11:39 AM)theophilus Wrote:  You can find out more about this subject here:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...ial-organs
Answers is genesis is a saddle on a dinosaur joke....

"In the context of human evolution, human vestigiality involves those characters (such as organs or behaviors) occurring in the human species that are considered vestigial—in other words having lost all or most of their original function through evolution. Although structures usually called "vestigial" often appear functionless, a vestigial structure may retain lesser functions or develop minor new ones.[1] In some cases, structures once identified as vestigal simply had an unrecognized function"

"The vermiform appendix is a vestige of the cecum, an organ that would have been used to digest cellulose by humans' herbivorous ancestors.[4] Analogous organs in other animals similar to humans continue to perform that function, whereas other meat-eating animals may have similarly diminished appendices. In line with the possibility of vestigial organs developing new functions, some research suggests that the appendix may guard against the loss of symbiotic bacteria that aid in digestion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality


Quote:Have you considered the possibility that these organs have a purpose but we simply haven't discovered it yet?

Haha, NAILED IT.
"Class B proves that God works in mysterious ways, and we just do not understand its purpose. "
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17-10-2011, 01:02 PM
RE: What do Intelligent Designers say about toenails ?
I loved that Dawkins quote - it is amazing what evolution has made out of bits and pieces! Smile
Evolution does carry a lot of accumulated baggage while moving our species along as we continue to adapt. Since our bodies & brains are unable to foresee the direction to which we might need to adapt to next, we gain new stuff while we retain the old stuff. Certain parts of us are on a much slower track than others for sake of adaptation. It's another reason evolution takes several millions of years to greatly effect a species … and not 6 thousand. Suppose for a moment, we might need to go back and rely on something we currently find unnecessary… for that split second of supposition, those toenails or even male nipples might be viewed with teeny bit more respect.
On this subject, I can't help but think back to Darwin, "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change."
(I might also add, 'nor is it the one which we currently think makes the most sense.'. Otherwise, my body would have been born with the ability to produce my own caffeine. Tongue)
Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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