What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
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28-02-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It is not ""guided" by anything. The selection pressure PRODUCES results whch are SUITED to an environment. One is passive, one is active. You are imposing an "anthropomorphic" view, ("guided"), onto a blind process. You would have to assert that the environment was a "set up" in order for you to make your assertion. There is no evidence environmernts are "set up" to produce a selective result. You have just pushed back ID one step, with NO evidence. Fail. Try harder.
There's a lot of contradiction in your post. You say its not guided by anything but produces suited results. A "guide" is something which serves to direct or indicate. The selection pressure serves to direct evolution to produce organisms which are suited to the environment.
You who are anthropomorphizing becuase You are assuming "guide" necessitates an intellect. I haven't made that argument. I made the argument that if God does exist all He would have to do is manipulate/manufacture the selection pressure to achieve His desired results.
Now it is you who is being dishonest. You are using the word guide to show intentionality, and we are saying that since there is no intentionality the word 'guide' is incorrect.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-02-2013, 09:22 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:15 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  If you capitalize god, then you have an agenda. Tongue

Besides, "guide" indicates future, but there ain't no future. So there! Big Grin
I do have an agenda, but I have to lay some ground work first.

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28-02-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
I think the fact that there are so many gods similar to God means that they were all under the same selection pressures. It's amazing that so many people are so closed-minded to the possibility that Yaweh evolved from a simpler deity.
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28-02-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:18 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  When you look at the whole picture, you see organisms which although evolving independently, evolve similar biological traits and forms when they are subject to the same selection pressures.

With how many organisms there are on the planet, do you expect none to evolve similarily? I already said, there is convergence in some areas, divergence in others. What is this suppose to prove?

(28-02-2013 09:18 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Also you gave me a negative rep for, and these are your words not mine, "Using an aspect of evolution to imply the existence of a god is silly". Your not a very open minded person if you are unwilling to even consider that an argument can be made that uses evolution to suggest the existence of a creator.

No, fail quote. "Using an aspect of evolution to imply the existence of a god. Silly. " are my exact words.

Someone could construct an argument for god that involves evolution, and it would fail right off the bat because evolution explains the diversity of life without outside intervention.

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28-02-2013, 09:27 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do have an agenda, but I have to lay some ground work first.

There lay your problem. Your attempting to shift the evidence to fit the conclusion you have already come to instead of letting the evidence lead you to the answer.

How much education do you have in the field of biology?

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28-02-2013, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2013 09:35 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It is not ""guided" by anything. The selection pressure PRODUCES results whch are SUITED to an environment. One is passive, one is active. You are imposing an "anthropomorphic" view, ("guided"), onto a blind process. You would have to assert that the environment was a "set up" in order for you to make your assertion. There is no evidence environmernts are "set up" to produce a selective result. You have just pushed back ID one step, with NO evidence. Fail. Try harder.
There's a lot of contradiction in your post. You say its not guided by anything but produces suited results. A "guide" is something which serves to direct or indicate. The selection pressure serves to direct evolution to produce organisms which are suited to the environment.
You who are anthropomorphizing becuase You are assuming "guide" necessitates an intellect. I haven't made that argument. I made the argument that if God does exist all He would have to do is manipulate/manufacture the selection pressure to achieve His desired results.

(It's "you're" genius).
It's perfectly obvious what you are up to here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide
You have chosen to use the word "guide" in a special, "uncommon" way. You get to say anything you want, but you cannot expect others to accept your special definitions. As I said, all you have done is set ID one step back, by saying the environnment was designed to produce the result. You have no evidence for that, and it's just as stupid and unsupported as ID, and essentially the SAME argument.

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28-02-2013, 09:30 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:12 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I really had a lot to say in this thread but I am honestly so tired of trying to explain to people how and why they got it wrong. Mostly because the person I'm talking to has no true desire to understand the concepts. Attempting to find a flaw in an accepted theory is fine. I like that. Science likes it too. But when they don't understand the theory in the first place, it's just frustrating.

Imagine if I constantly said hockey wasn't a sport because it didn't have a basketball.
So there I've proved hockey isn't a sport. I found the flaw.
Evolution is a fact that is not in dispute in the thread. However it has never been shown that it is blind. Thats just an opinion by people like Richard Dawkins. If you watch his video again, Dawkins admits that his computer simulation is a bit of a cheat. He admits he could demonstrate evolution but could not demonstrate blind evolution.

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28-02-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:27 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 09:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do have an agenda, but I have to lay some ground work first.

There lay your problem. Your attempting to shift the evidence to fit the conclusion you have already come to instead of letting the evidence lead you to the answer.

How much education do you have in the field of biology?
And what exactly are his authority/credentials to tell a PhD Evolutionary Biologist they made a "blunder" ? (arrogant much?)

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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28-02-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 09:15 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  If you capitalize god, then you have an agenda. Tongue

Besides, "guide" indicates future, but there ain't no future. So there! Big Grin
I do have an agenda, but I have to lay some ground work first.

Well, we don't accept your groundwork as having any merit. Try again.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-02-2013, 09:34 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(28-02-2013 09:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  (It's "you're" genius).
It's perfectly obvious what you are up to here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide
You have chosen to use the word "guide" in a special, "uncommon" way. You get to say anything you want, but you cannot expect others to accept your special definitions. As I said, all you have done is set ID one step back, by saying the environnment was designed to produce the result. You have no evidenbce for that, and it's just as stupid and unsupported as ID, and essentially the SAME argument.

Uncommon way? I see guides all over the place. My pinball machine has rails which "guide" the ball. Today a funnel guided oil into my cars engine. I could go on forever.

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