What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
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08-03-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(08-03-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 03:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What about his use of "tend towards"? How does an alledgedly blind process that has no goals tend towards anything? If it is tending towards "practical" and/or "functional" then aren't those things goals?

No, no 'tends toward' either. Differential survival alters the allele frequency in the gene pool.

It's a totally algorithmic, mechanistic process. No goals, no guidance, no direction, no intelligence.
I agree that it is an algorithmic, mechanistic process but so are you. Yet you have goals, you have direction, and you have intellect. You are not blind.
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09-03-2013, 12:15 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(08-03-2013 07:28 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, no 'tends toward' either. Differential survival alters the allele frequency in the gene pool.

It's a totally algorithmic, mechanistic process. No goals, no guidance, no direction, no intelligence.
I agree that it is an algorithmic, mechanistic process but so are you. Yet you have goals, you have direction, and you have intellect. You are not blind.

In the video -which I have finally been able to view- Dawkins states "evolution is blind to the future". The evolutionary process itself is one of immediate and local adaptation, there is no afore knowledge of what may or may not be necessary for survival. Some species survive some do not and become extinct.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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09-03-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(08-03-2013 07:28 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, no 'tends toward' either. Differential survival alters the allele frequency in the gene pool.

It's a totally algorithmic, mechanistic process. No goals, no guidance, no direction, no intelligence.
I agree that it is an algorithmic, mechanistic process but so are you. Yet you have goals, you have direction, and you have intellect. You are not blind.


Show me the brain and the mind of the natural world.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 01:11 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 01:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 07:28 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I agree that it is an algorithmic, mechanistic process but so are you. Yet you have goals, you have direction, and you have intellect. You are not blind.


Show me the brain and the mind of the natural world.
The point was that algorithmic, mechanistics processes can achieve goals
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09-03-2013, 01:32 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 01:11 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  Show me the brain and the mind of the natural world.
The point was that algorithmic, mechanistics processes can achieve goals

Not without a mind it can't. Only a mind creates goals.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 01:33 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 01:11 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  Show me the brain and the mind of the natural world.
The point was that algorithmic, mechanistics processes can achieve goals

Yeah, and 2+2=4.

It requires a mind to find and assign a goal to finding 4. But a pair of birds can meet another pair of birds and form a group of 4 birds, without an outside intelligent agent driving them towards forming a group of 4, for the purpose of having a group of 4.

At this point Mr.Blowme, you sound more like that 'Double Rainbow' guy attributing a quirk of natural optics to your favorite imaginary friend, all the while asking 'what does this mean?'




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09-03-2013, 02:08 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 01:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:11 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The point was that algorithmic, mechanistics processes can achieve goals

Not without a mind it can't. Only a mind creates goals.
Are you claiming the process of a mind is not an algorithmic and/or mechanistics?
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09-03-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 02:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Not without a mind it can't. Only a mind creates goals.
Are you claiming the process of a mind is not an algorithmic and/or mechanistics?


Mind is an emergent property of a brain. Show me the brain.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 07:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 02:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Are you claiming the process of a mind is not an algorithmic and/or mechanistics?


Mind is an emergent property of a brain. Show me the brain.
Evoution is an emergent process too. You never did answer this question. Is a mind an algorithmic mechanism?
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09-03-2013, 02:17 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 02:30 PM by Chas.)
RE: What do Richard Dawkins and the Intelligent Design movement have in common?
(09-03-2013 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 07:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Mind is an emergent property of a brain. Show me the brain.
Evoution is an emergent process too. You never did answer this question. Is a mind an algorithmic mechanism?


I don't know for sure, but it appears so.

I tire of your silly game.
You are attempting to arrive at all of the conclusion that the biota of the earth being a mind. And it programs itself by evolution. Or something along those lines.

This is neither a new nor a very interesting idea. Show me your evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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