What do conservatives fear?
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27-02-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
Extreme conservatives are afraid of change. They're afraid of the unknown. They're afraid of tomorrow. They're afraid of those who are different, and take those who are different as a rebuke of their own lives, values, and opinions.
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27-02-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 09:37 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  I will believe the small government argument when conservatives stop spending millions trying to pass laws that govern people's bedrooms and personal lives.

And also when it stops targeting legal aid for the poor, public broadcasting (0.01% of the Federal budget), the National Endowments for the Arts (0.003% of the Federal budget) and Humanities, (those 3 things btw, total 0.016% of the Federal budget) and free and reduced school lunch programs...while claiming it's all to cut the overwrought spending of the government.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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27-02-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 04:24 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

What is it that conservatives fear?

Chaos and disorder.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-02-2017, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 10:43 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 04:24 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

What is it that conservatives fear? They talk a tough game at all times and in all parts of the world, but there is something that they fear, viscerally, and on an existential level. What is it?

Facts. Specifically those that challenge their archaic emotion-based worldview. Also any kind of change that expands the distribution of access to wealth and political power to more groups.

Though I will readily admit there's a virulent strain of know-nothing, anti-fact sentiment in the ranks of the Left too. The anti-vaxxers, and anti-corporation at all costs people are every bit as irrational as the bible-thumping, gay-bashing, evolution-denying folks on the other side. Though their numbers are fewer and their impact is limited.
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27-02-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 04:24 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  What is it that conservatives fear? They talk a tough game at all times and in all parts of the world, but there is something that they fear, viscerally, and on an existential level. What is it?
They fear loss of control.
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27-02-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 06:11 AM)julep Wrote:  Conservatives fear (or resent) the loss of power and privilege--of which they still have a lot, but not quite as much as 50 or 100 or 200 years ago. I understand this; it's useful to have power, and it's nice to exist in a privileged bubble because of the color of your skin and abundant resources collected by your ancestors. Wasn't it...great...when if you were a white male with a high school education, you could have a decent paying job and a little house and a wife whose job was to pop out kids and take care of that house, when you could work for one employer your whole career? Wasn't it...great...when you were white and upper class and your kinda dumb kid wanted the prestige and connections of an Ivy League degree and you didn't have to worry about whether Yale or UPenn would give your kid's slot to some smart brown kid?

Of course at bottom most of us tend to feel that we've earned all of our power and that any privilege that favors us isn't a big deal or is the result of our moral superiority. So we paint groups that threaten it as unworthy, envious, and malign. So liberals = corrupt.

I haven't had breakfast yet, so maybe that's why a pie analogy springs to mind to describe my take on the US political outlook: liberals pay at least lip service to the idea of cutting the pie into more slices; conservatives think they can make a bigger pie, but sliced the same as it's been in the past.

Isn't there a quote along the lines of.... When you have been bought up with privilege equality seems like persecution. Idk just a thought.
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27-02-2017, 01:57 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 04:24 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  What is it that conservatives fear? They talk a tough game at all times and in all parts of the world, but there is something that they fear, viscerally, and on an existential level. What is it?

As always, with any group, you have to make a distinction there. Persons like Germany's Angela Merkel aren't Britain's May. And they cairtenly aren't Donald Trump.

This group is far from being homogenous. I could cast a vote for Merkel. I would never cast a vote for May or Trump.

You have to make a distinction between being conservative and being rightwing. What we observe for the largest part here, is the extreme right being in action. They have taken over in Poland and Hungary, and, of course, in the USA. Also, what's called conservative in America, would be considered extreme right in every other part of the world. The Democrats would be what's considered conservative in Europe.
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27-02-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
Loss of privilege, real or perceived.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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27-02-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 01:57 PM)abaris Wrote:  You have to make a distinction between being conservative and being rightwing. What we observe for the largest part here, is the extreme right being in action. They have taken over in Poland and Hungary, and, of course, in the USA. Also, what's called conservative in America, would be considered extreme right in every other part of the world. The Democrats would be what's considered conservative in Europe.

Yes, I think often on this forum, due to the high amount of USA folk that they equate Republicans = Conservative and Democrates = Liberal.
And because of that they equate Liberal to socialist policies (because the Dems also incorporate some socialist policies) and Conservative to Capitalist policies (because the Repubs want market forces rather than state owned health, education etc).

I find this quite confusing.
To me, liberal means having a respect for peoples diverse opinions and autonomy. Where conservative represents wanting a unified set of values and behaviors, generally along the lines of the status quo.


Socialism (e.g. social welfare, state housing, state healthcare...) vs capitalism or perhaps even anarchism (where free market forces is the determining factor on what is produced and who gets to enjoy wealth).
I guess Democrates lean more towards socialism and Republicans tend more towards capitalism or anarchism. They seem to be opposed to a state healthcare, opposed to state education even.
At the moment they seem to be not interested in environmental concerns (don't want regulations impacting industry).
But they also go against the idea of capitalism or anarchism with their idea of high taxes on imports and either financial punishments for those that manufacture offshore or tax breaks or subsidies for those that manufacture onshore.

Then there is the aspect of fear of immigrants (I assume that is a conservative issue) and fear of not having enough nukes (I'm not sure where politically that falls)

But conservatives aren't necessarily capitalists and minimum govt are they?
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27-02-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 02:32 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-02-2017 01:57 PM)abaris Wrote:  You have to make a distinction between being conservative and being rightwing. What we observe for the largest part here, is the extreme right being in action. They have taken over in Poland and Hungary, and, of course, in the USA. Also, what's called conservative in America, would be considered extreme right in every other part of the world. The Democrats would be what's considered conservative in Europe.

Yes, I think often on this forum, due to the high amount of USA folk that they equate Republicans = Conservative and Democrates = Liberal.
And because of that they equate Liberal to socialist policies (because the Dems also incorporate some socialist policies) and Conservative to Capitalist policies (because the Repubs want market forces rather than state owned health, education etc).

I find this quite confusing.
To me, liberal means having a respect for peoples diverse opinions and autonomy. Where conservative represents wanting a unified set of values and behaviors, generally along the lines of the status quo.


Socialism (e.g. social welfare, state housing, state healthcare...) vs capitalism or perhaps even anarchism (where free market forces is the determining factor on what is produced and who gets to enjoy wealth).
I guess Democrates lean more towards socialism and Republicans tend more towards capitalism or anarchism. They seem to be opposed to a state healthcare, opposed to state education even.
At the moment they seem to be not interested in environmental concerns (don't want regulations impacting industry).
But they also go against the idea of capitalism or anarchism with their idea of high taxes on imports and either financial punishments for those that manufacture offshore or tax breaks or subsidies for those that manufacture onshore.

Then there is the aspect of fear of immigrants (I assume that is a conservative issue) and fear of not having enough nukes (I'm not sure where politically that falls)

But conservatives aren't necessarily capitalists and minimum govt are they?

I have noticed that apparent difference between US and the rest of the world that you talk about. My conclusion is that, what we call conservative here, you guys view as borderline fringe.

A typical 2017 Republican will probably be right of anything mainstream that you have in New Zealand. Democrats might be like center-right. Bernie Sanders might be a normal left of center liberal.

When it comes to the military, Republicans have traditionally been more hawkish, though that distinction has faded as the political class has largely shifted to the right. A Republican will happily pump endless tax dollars to a military that already outspends the next 10 rivals, even as schools in certain districts close for lack for funds.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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