What do conservatives fear?
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27-02-2017, 03:06 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 05:46 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-02-2017 04:24 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  ...
What is it that conservatives fear? They talk a tough game at all times and in all parts of the world, but there is something that they fear, viscerally, and on an existential level. What is it?
...

I think that terminology is important here.

I am conservative (small 'c') when it comes to for example, written communication. Yet I am liberal (small 'l') when it comes to spoken language.

I understand that the latter is more open to evolutionary forces like natural selection and it's even desirable because it enables diversity of colour and flourishing.

The former however is a method of establishing order.

Can we use a shorthand to describe Conservatives (big 'c') as those who favour order and the status quo? Yes.

Therefore the answer to the question is that Conservatives fear change and chaos.

The problem is that what is currently thought of as Conservative in the political sense is not that. These are people who reject a form of 'bigly government' that seeks to impose a type of order that makes them feel uncomfortable. In fact, they seem to be happiest when they are imposing freedom (deregulation) yet also imposing out-dated moral systems (10 commandments and shit).

So it might be better to find a term that encompasses those who are socially conservative (even regressive on e.g. abortion) but economically Darwinian to the point of being Authoritarian Libertarians.

In business, the liberal mind (open, innovative) is needed as much as the conservative mind (risk-averse, conscientious) for the organisation to remain stable but also explore new territory.

Societies need both.

In essence, I think the answer relates to order vs. chaos. This current breed of 'conservatives' seek order and fear chaos but this cannot be divorced from the outcomes they want to achieve. Chaos in other countries is not their problem, chaos in the markets brings them wealth.

They want order in their own communities and the rest of the peasants can go fuck themselves.

Or something like that.

Dodgy

DLJ,

That was good. I'll have to read it again, more than once.

D.
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27-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 02:51 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I have noticed that apparent difference between US and the rest of the world that you talk about. My conclusion is that, what we call conservative here, you guys view as borderline fringe.

A typical 2017 Republican will probably be right of anything mainstream that you have in New Zealand. Democrats might be like center-right. Bernie Sanders might be a normal left of center liberal.

When it comes to the military, Republicans have traditionally been more hawkish, though that distinction has faded as the political class has largely shifted to the right. A Republican will happily pump endless tax dollars to a military that already outspends the next 10 rivals, even as schools in certain districts close for lack for funds.
It's hard for me to get a real gauge on USA politics, I haven't lived over there, haven't even visited, but we do get a lot of USA tv shows and I do get to talk (argue) online with a lot of USA people.

I would have thought Democrates are center left, but perhaps they are center right.
Republicans are a mixture of many "├Âut-there fringe" that would struggle to get many votes here. Religious parties just don't get votes, anarchy parties won't get the votes, far right parties don't get the votes. The outlandish ideas of banning Muslims or building walls or denying global warming or wanting to instigate a review on Immunisations and autism are just so weird that they would pretty instantly disqualify a party as being a serious contender.
But also there are things you guys may see as normal debates e.g. guns, abortion, evolution (and which are often campaigned for in USA), these are just non issues here. Prolifers just don't have the numbers, anti gun control people are seen as scary loonies, people who don't take evolution seriously just tend to keep that crackpot idea to themselves.
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27-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 02:51 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Bernie Sanders might be a normal left of center liberal.

He would be what he claims to be. A social democrat. Apart from Warren he's the only one deserving of the title of liberal. Although that also has a different connotation in Europe.
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27-02-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 06:36 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Liberals. Drinking Beverage

They fear organized liberals more than just liberals.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-02-2017, 03:13 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
What I'm always amazed about is the eagerness of common people to be fucked up the ass with a sordid lead pipe. Conservatives - at least the rightwing part - do nothing but and their electorate should mirror that. It never does though. It's the old story of the pied piper. People fall for the tune and don't do the reality check. Very much like lemmings, I would say.
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27-02-2017, 03:14 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 09:37 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  I will believe the small government argument when conservatives stop spending millions trying to pass laws that govern people's bedrooms and personal lives.

Shadow,

Agreed. I have not met a C/conservative who did not want more government control of the things they want to see controlled, which is a lot.

D.
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27-02-2017, 03:46 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
Clouds.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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27-02-2017, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 09:14 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 03:07 PM)Stevil Wrote:  But also there are things you guys may see as normal debates e.g. guns, abortion, evolution (and which are often campaigned for in USA), these are just non issues here. Prolifers just don't have the numbers, anti gun control people are seen as scary loonies, people who don't take evolution seriously just tend to keep that crackpot idea to themselves.

Lucky you. Thumbsup
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27-02-2017, 08:24 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 03:14 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  
(27-02-2017 09:37 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  I will believe the small government argument when conservatives stop spending millions trying to pass laws that govern people's bedrooms and personal lives.

Shadow,

Agreed. I have not met a C/conservative who did not want more government control of the things they want to see controlled, which is a lot.

D.

I'm a registered Libertarian, though I don't agree with all their positions. All the same, I'm stunned by how many allegedly small-government folk are happy to shove the power of government into a woman's uterus or a hedonist's medicine cabinet.
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27-02-2017, 08:59 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(27-02-2017 10:23 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Extreme conservatives are afraid of change.

And I suspect they're even more terrified of people who are not afraid of change, because those people clearly would hold the upper hand in a novel situation. Hence, they feel most comfortable in a homogeneous, static culture where it's easier to spot outliers who might threaten their way of life.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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