What do conservatives fear?
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06-03-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 05:56 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 03:54 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  There is a similar vibe here in the UK, as the NHS comes under attack from the right wing media, on an almost a daily basis, and the Tory government quietly cuts health services by underfunding.

D.

Sorry, but you can't just blame the Conservatives for the NHS. It was the Labour Party who slowly started to privatise it. You also mention that our NHS comes under attack from "right-wing" media on a daily basis, could you provide some examples?

The NHS is funded enough for the time being, at least until the population grows more, but it needs to be managed a lot better - that much we can agree on.

My recollection, as someone who grew up under the devastation that was the Thatcher era, was that it was under her reign of terror that they started the chipping away of the NHS. Blair was Thatcher-lite so it continued into his reign of smarm.

As for NHS being attacked by the right-wing media, I recall Michael Moore being harangued by a Fox News dude over what the Yanks call 'single payer' and the examples of people dying while waiting for operations or there not being enough beds (both examples of legitimate but proportionately rare Capacity Management concerns) were all cherry-picked from the Telegraph's socialism-bashing archive.

Having said that, the private model encourages greater efficiency, accountability and customer orientation but it also encourages greed and the profit-motive... for Darwinian reasons.

The trick is to enabler CSI (Continual Service Improvement) which to a profiteering organisation would be seen as a costly overhead and to a 1970s-style public service would be resisted (by the Unions) as a threat to the status quo.

This means that the best mix is have the general principle of having conservatives (small c) running the show (budget etc.) and liberals (small l) innovating with CSI activities.

As a whimsical aside, this discussion reminds me of christmases long gone with my sister (then a director for London Ambulance Service) and her significant other (President of UNISON). Fun times. Big Grin

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06-03-2017, 06:36 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 06:08 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm guessing this modern dance piece isn't quite your cup of tea then? Big Grin Chase

To be fair, it isn't exactly my cup of tea either.
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06-03-2017, 06:45 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 06:08 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm guessing this modern dance piece isn't quite your cup of tea then? Big Grin Chase

No, I prefer this:



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06-03-2017, 06:55 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 06:45 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 06:08 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm guessing this modern dance piece isn't quite your cup of tea then? Big Grin Chase

No, I prefer this:




Because the women aren't allowed to participate?

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06-03-2017, 07:26 PM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 06:55 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Because the women aren't allowed to participate?

I didn't see any women in the modern dance piece either.
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07-03-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 06:21 PM)DLJ Wrote:  My recollection, as someone who grew up under the devastation that was the Thatcher era, was that it was under her reign of terror that they started the chipping away of the NHS. Blair was Thatcher-lite so it continued into his reign of smarm.

As for NHS being attacked by the right-wing media, I recall Michael Moore being harangued by a Fox News dude over what the Yanks call 'single payer' and the examples of people dying while waiting for operations or there not being enough beds (both examples of legitimate but proportionately rare Capacity Management concerns) were all cherry-picked from the Telegraph's socialism-bashing archive.

DLJ,

Yes, I felt the immediate political change in 1979 and it has been downhill since then, with some relief during the Blair/Brown years.

These days I don't read the right wing rags: Telegraph, Times, Express and Mail, but its hard to avoid the headlines on news stands.

Of our public institutions, it seems that the NHS is the last big domino to fall and the right wing strategy of underfunding and then criticizing for failure (due to that underfunding) is working IMHO. The Tories have a cute way of deflecting criticism from their policy. When attacked they trumpet the amount of money spent on the NHS, which sounds a big number, but they do not relate this to the service need. Its always primarily about the money for them, in regard to any public service.

Another ploy has been to transfer public services to local councils, which sounds fair enough, but then they defund the councils year on year. That way people complain locally, which is how the Tories want it. In the last three years our council has stopped cleaning the pavements in our town, stopped repairing potholes in the road, closed the police station, closed public toilets, reduced trash collections, closed smaller libraries, switched off street lights at night etc etc. Our local hospital has reduced A&E opening times, closed half of the restaurant, brought in a Costa Coffee franchise, and enrolled many more volunteers around the hospital.

Finally, we are just about to lose a main library and town hall, which was originally provided by - the Victorians. It has come to that.

D.
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07-03-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(06-03-2017 07:26 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 06:55 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Because the women aren't allowed to participate?

I didn't see any women in the modern dance piece either.

They are not comparable situations. The modern dance piece was not the same as a community event like the one you posted.

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07-03-2017, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 10:07 AM by Heath_Tierney.)
RE: What do conservatives fear?
I think the title of the post is misleading.

Conservatives - and I used to be one, a dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying right-winger - don't go around in dread fear of that much. They do, however, tend to have a dubious relationship with facts.

The avalanche of lies (#alternativefacts) spewing from the Trump White House are just the most recent examples. But the fact is that worldview in which the right wing lives is based on falsehoods: supply-side economics, creationism, climate change denial, just to name a few, the bedrocks of which are based in a right-wing worldview. How many leftists and liberals (they're not the same thing) subscribe to those?

Here's another example. Just yesterday Dr Ben Carson was quoted to have said that the slaves that were brought to the US were immigrants. Source: History according to Ben Carson

Quote:"That's what America is about. A land of dreams and opportunity," Mr Carson told staff on Monday, his first day in his new job.

"There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream."

Equating slavery with immigration is, by any measure one wishes to use, based on a lie.

That's not to say that the left is squeaky-clean in the truth department. Anti-vaxxers and GMO opponents also have their biases based on falsehoods, and those are primarily part of a left-ish worldview.
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07-03-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
From what I see in comments and actions:

women
blacks
gays
the poor
immigrants
Muslims
well-educated city dwellers
foreigners
atheists
critical thinkers
contraception
sexuality
clean energy

and facts.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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07-03-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: What do conservatives fear?
(07-03-2017 10:04 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  I think the title of the post is misleading.

Conservatives - and I used to be one, a dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying right-winger - don't go around in dread fear of that much. They do, however, tend to have a dubious relationship with facts.

I too used to be one, and I agree with the last part, but I'm not sure I agree with the first part. It may a matter of semantics and/or perspective, but I remember a ton of fear going on. While it may not have been a constant "dread", it was a constant barrage of how liberal were going to screw us, and back in the early 2000s it was a constant barrage of how Muslim terrorists were going to kill us all. Most I knew listened to right wing talk radio, which lived on (and probably still does) scaring the shit out of conservatives about all the stuff the left, the government, and terrorists were going to do them, and most had a evangelical slant which also added in their church was going to be closed and they'd be arrested for reading the Bible.
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