What do we know?
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22-10-2013, 06:07 AM
RE: What do we know?
(20-10-2013 02:18 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  I'm still looking for a thunderstone so I can evolve into a raichu.


PokéMon don't evolve, they metamorphosize. That game world is filled with crocoduck like creatures... Big Grin

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22-10-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: What do we know?
Why is it that so many theists are focused on evolution when conversing with atheists? It's as though they think invalidating evolution would be a game changer. But take away evolution and I still see zero evidence for any gods.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-10-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 12:58 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Why is it that so many theists are focused on evolution when conversing with atheists? It's as though they think invalidating evolution would be a game changer. But take away evolution and I still see zero evidence for any gods.

Because they know a knockout punch when they see one. Before evolution there was no way to really explain the natural world or how animals and people got to where they were. You needed a supernatural agency. Evolution eradicates the need for god to constantly intervene for the world to be as it is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-10-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:08 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 12:58 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Why is it that so many theists are focused on evolution when conversing with atheists? It's as though they think invalidating evolution would be a game changer. But take away evolution and I still see zero evidence for any gods.

Because they know a knockout punch when they see one. Before evolution there was no way to really explain the natural world or how animals and people got to where they were. You needed a supernatural agency. Evolution eradicates the need for god to constantly intervene for the world to be as it is.

I became an atheist at age 10. I studied physical Anthro at age 17. I didn't know about evolution when I became an atheist. When my parents became atheist, they likely knew nothing about it either. Atheists existed long before the knowledge of evolution came about. I.E. atheism and evolution have nothing much to do with each other.

It's just that evolution kind of does away with Adam and Eve and talking snakes.

Evolution is one thing that threatens many religions, it is however not the base of atheism.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-10-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 01:08 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Because they know a knockout punch when they see one. Before evolution there was no way to really explain the natural world or how animals and people got to where they were. You needed a supernatural agency. Evolution eradicates the need for god to constantly intervene for the world to be as it is.

I became an atheist at age 10. I studied physical Anthro at age 17. I didn't know about evolution when I became an atheist. When my parents became atheist, they likely knew nothing about it either. Atheists existed long before the knowledge of evolution came about. I.E. atheism and evolution have nothing much to do with each other.

It's just that evolution kind of does away with Adam and Eve and talking snakes.

Evolution is one thing that threatens many religions, it is however not the base of atheism.

I wasn't making the case it was, or at least that wasn't my intention. Hitchens said something similar to my meaning in god is not Great. Before evolution the furthest you could honestly go was deism for a comprehensive explanation of the natural world. While evolution is not the only or even the main strike against religion it does add a major piece to the puzzle.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-10-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:08 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 12:58 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Why is it that so many theists are focused on evolution when conversing with atheists? It's as though they think invalidating evolution would be a game changer. But take away evolution and I still see zero evidence for any gods.

Because they know a knockout punch when they see one. Before evolution there was no way to really explain the natural world or how animals and people got to where they were. You needed a supernatural agency. Evolution eradicates the need for god to constantly intervene for the world to be as it is.
Well, yes, I recognize that's what they think. But a lack of explanation in no way leads to "therefore god did it" (and I know you already know that). That's what they seem to miss and was the real point I was making.

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22-10-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:41 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 01:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  I became an atheist at age 10. I studied physical Anthro at age 17. I didn't know about evolution when I became an atheist. When my parents became atheist, they likely knew nothing about it either. Atheists existed long before the knowledge of evolution came about. I.E. atheism and evolution have nothing much to do with each other.

It's just that evolution kind of does away with Adam and Eve and talking snakes.

Evolution is one thing that threatens many religions, it is however not the base of atheism.

Before evolution the furthest you could honestly go was deism for a comprehensive explanation of the natural world.

Balderdash! Atheists have known for hundreds of years that nature is responsible for everything. It just wasn't defined as evolution, but the thought that things just naturally developed over time is not that new, evolution just puts proof and structure into what a lot of humans have reasoned for centuries. No gods needed.

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22-10-2013, 02:09 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:54 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 01:41 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Before evolution the furthest you could honestly go was deism for a comprehensive explanation of the natural world.

Balderdash! Atheists have known for hundreds of years that nature is responsible for everything. It just wasn't defined as evolution, but the thought that things just naturally developed over time is not that new, evolution just puts proof and structure into what a lot of humans have reasoned for centuries. No gods needed.

When offering a choice between Magic and I don't know Humans have nearly universally accepted magic as the answer. I don't know, while being more honest and magic has never yet been proven to be the correct answer, is less satisfying.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-10-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 01:54 PM)Dom Wrote:  Balderdash! Atheists have known for hundreds of years that nature is responsible for everything. It just wasn't defined as evolution, but the thought that things just naturally developed over time is not that new, evolution just puts proof and structure into what a lot of humans have reasoned for centuries. No gods needed.

What it does do is provide a beautiful, testable theory of *how* we got here without external agency. I think lots of people would feel that God as described in the Bible was pretty obviously a human constructed thing, but as soon as someone said "how did we get here without God then ?" they'd have to (well they wouldn't *have to* but I'm guessing people would have speculated) postulate some very vague idea of how it 'just happened' due to natural laws. Or they could go the deism route of 'well, someone made us but that someone is not your stupid vengeful petty Yahweh"... which sounds a lot more reasonable by comparison.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-10-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: What do we know?
(22-10-2013 02:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 01:54 PM)Dom Wrote:  Balderdash! Atheists have known for hundreds of years that nature is responsible for everything. It just wasn't defined as evolution, but the thought that things just naturally developed over time is not that new, evolution just puts proof and structure into what a lot of humans have reasoned for centuries. No gods needed.

What it does do is provide a beautiful, testable theory of *how* we got here without external agency. I think lots of people would feel that God as described in the Bible was pretty obviously a human constructed thing, but as soon as someone said "how did we get here without God then ?" they'd have to (well they wouldn't *have to* but I'm guessing people would have speculated) postulate some very vague idea of how it 'just happened' due to natural laws. Or they could go the deism route of 'well, someone made us but that someone is not your stupid vengeful petty Yahweh"... which sounds a lot more reasonable by comparison.

Evolution has been logically understood for eons, it just wasn't part of science and didn't have a lot of scientific proof.

Evolution could be directly observed by farmers and breeders of various plants and animals. Selective breeding has been around for a long time.

Selective breeding is exactly the same as evolution, only that humans are expediting it, or giving it a new direction. But it is a direct demo of how evolution happens.

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