What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
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23-12-2016, 11:22 PM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:06 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:00 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  I want to know if you guys think that George (the man in the link I have provided) believe his Out of body experience which has been "verified". It was said that he had an OBE while he was "dead" and then he went to his house, saw his kids, then he went to his neighbours house. They had a baby who kept crying. They didn't know why, but George claimed that he could talk to the baby, and that he found out from seeing the baby that the baby had a twisted/fractured arm. What do you think about that?
I am somewhat skeptical about this, but the fact that it was documented makes me wonder if it really was fake

Verified? By whom, and how?

How do we know that he didn't know about the baby and it's injury beforehand, or otherwise learn of it afterwards, before making his claim? How do we know the neighbors aren't in on it? Do we have any evidence to back up any of this story, or is it all hearsay?

What's more likely, that he astral projected and had cogent pre-verbal communication with an infant, all while dead? Or that there are holes in the story being filled in or overlooked by the credulous?

It's more likely that there are holes in the story like you said. The reason I am asking is that I need a lot of reassurance because the site that I got it from has many examples of atheists going to hell during their NDEs and I am trying to debunk the stories so that I feel confident that this is not true. I fear hell because I was raised Christian and Christians talk about it a lot. Also, many of my friends and loved ones are atheists and I myself am agnostic and I don't believe the bible but I still fear the what if factor of hell.
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23-12-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:10 PM)yakherder Wrote:  "No matter what eyewitness testimony is in the court of law, it is the lowest form of evidence in the court of science." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

Personally, I think 98% of the story was completely fabricated. I concede only that there may have been a man named George Rodonaia, but since I can find multiple stories with his name from different times and with different situations leading to the supposed near death experience, there isn't much credibility in the rest.

Rationally that makes the most sense. I don't always trust my own thinking, so I figured I would ask some more rational people.
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23-12-2016, 11:29 PM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:23 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:10 PM)yakherder Wrote:  "No matter what eyewitness testimony is in the court of law, it is the lowest form of evidence in the court of science." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

Personally, I think 98% of the story was completely fabricated. I concede only that there may have been a man named George Rodonaia, but since I can find multiple stories with his name from different times and with different situations leading to the supposed near death experience, there isn't much credibility in the rest.

Rationally that makes the most sense. I don't always trust my own thinking, so I figured I would ask some more rational people.

Not trusting your own thinking is actually quite a logical practice. Human perception is often flawed. That's why science has a defined process for skeptical analysis and a laundry list of logical fallacies to keep in mind when digging for facts.

'Murican Canadian
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23-12-2016, 11:29 PM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:22 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  It's more likely that there are holes in the story like you said. The reason I am asking is that I need a lot of reassurance because the site that I got it from has many examples of atheists going to hell during their NDEs and I am trying to debunk the stories so that I feel confident that this is not true. I fear hell because I was raised Christian and Christians talk about it a lot. Also, many of my friends and loved ones are atheists and I myself am agnostic and I don't believe the bible but I still fear the what if factor of hell.

I can guarantee that an atheist not raised in a predominately Christian society won't see hell. Indeed, NDE's by people of other's faith have them envisioning their own version of the afterlife according to their own religion. What's more likely, that people are actually going to heaven and hell and coming back? Or that our brain's oxygen starved malfunctions are colored by our own societal and cultural baggage? Notice, how a Buddhist or Pagan NDE never experiences Christian or Muslim heaven or hell.

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23-12-2016, 11:47 PM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:29 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:22 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  It's more likely that there are holes in the story like you said. The reason I am asking is that I need a lot of reassurance because the site that I got it from has many examples of atheists going to hell during their NDEs and I am trying to debunk the stories so that I feel confident that this is not true. I fear hell because I was raised Christian and Christians talk about it a lot. Also, many of my friends and loved ones are atheists and I myself am agnostic and I don't believe the bible but I still fear the what if factor of hell.

I can guarantee that an atheist not raised in a predominately Christian society won't see hell. Indeed, NDE's by people of other's faith have them envisioning their own version of the afterlife according to their own religion. What's more likely, that people are actually going to heaven and hell and coming back? Or that our brain's oxygen starved malfunctions are colored by our own societal and cultural baggage? Notice, how a Buddhist or Pagan NDE never experiences Christian or Muslim heaven or hell.

That's true. I have done some research on NDEs today and I found that Western NDEs do differ from non-western. I know that Western heaven often depicts of meeting dead relatives, having a life review, feeling total love from a white light, etc. Japanese NDEs usually have a white light, although there is no feeling of love from that white light. They often go to fields and meadows full of flowers. There are differences there. It just seems that the NDEs at near-death.com seem different. They seem more religiously oriented. They have classic Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish NDEs. The Christian ones are the ones where people"telepathically" talk to a light they interpret as God, they have a life review, sometimes meet demons and experience "hell" until they call out to Jesus. I wonder if like you said, it could be that some of these "atheists" really are seeing "hell" in their minds, but only because they don't expect to see something. Then, when their brains are in this ND stage, they think that life really does continue. This causes them to panic and think that they must go to hell because that is what their parents and their communities told them. Interestingly, I have seen many Christian videos of atheists seeing hell. I also saw a few NDE videos of people who grew up in India as atheists, but they did not see hell. One man had a past life review and although he was not that nice he was only told to shape up. Another man was an atheist but was still taken to a beautiful water stream and fields. Of course, now both of them believe in a spiritual realm lol.
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24-12-2016, 12:19 AM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
NDE claims are no different than the claims of the entire religions they represent.
They are non-falsifiable. In other words, they could be making the whole thing up, there is no way to disprove it.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
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24-12-2016, 12:42 AM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:47 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:29 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I can guarantee that an atheist not raised in a predominately Christian society won't see hell. Indeed, NDE's by people of other's faith have them envisioning their own version of the afterlife according to their own religion. What's more likely, that people are actually going to heaven and hell and coming back? Or that our brain's oxygen starved malfunctions are colored by our own societal and cultural baggage? Notice, how a Buddhist or Pagan NDE never experiences Christian or Muslim heaven or hell.

That's true. I have done some research on NDEs today and I found that Western NDEs do differ from non-western. I know that Western heaven often depicts of meeting dead relatives, having a life review, feeling total love from a white light, etc. Japanese NDEs usually have a white light, although there is no feeling of love from that white light. They often go to fields and meadows full of flowers. There are differences there. It just seems that the NDEs at near-death.com seem different. They seem more religiously oriented. They have classic Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish NDEs. The Christian ones are the ones where people"telepathically" talk to a light they interpret as God, they have a life review, sometimes meet demons and experience "hell" until they call out to Jesus. I wonder if like you said, it could be that some of these "atheists" really are seeing "hell" in their minds, but only because they don't expect to see something. Then, when their brains are in this ND stage, they think that life really does continue. This causes them to panic and think that they must go to hell because that is what their parents and their communities told them. Interestingly, I have seen many Christian videos of atheists seeing hell. I also saw a few NDE videos of people who grew up in India as atheists, but they did not see hell. One man had a past life review and although he was not that nice he was only told to shape up. Another man was an atheist but was still taken to a beautiful water stream and fields. Of course, now both of them believe in a spiritual realm lol.

You said yourself that the site seems religiously oriented. So what makes you think that they're not playing fast and loose with their supposedly 'atheist' testimonials? It's not at all uncommon for Christian apologists to claim to be former atheists, to lend extra weight to their supposed conversion. If I wanted to sell people on Christian NDE's being legit, I can see how making up NDE stories where atheists experience the Christian afterlife are meant to be corroborative and add legitimacy to the Christian claims. The tag line writes itself "Of course Christian heaven and hell are real, even atheists NDE's experience it".

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24-12-2016, 12:52 AM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(24-12-2016 12:42 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:47 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  That's true. I have done some research on NDEs today and I found that Western NDEs do differ from non-western. I know that Western heaven often depicts of meeting dead relatives, having a life review, feeling total love from a white light, etc. Japanese NDEs usually have a white light, although there is no feeling of love from that white light. They often go to fields and meadows full of flowers. There are differences there. It just seems that the NDEs at near-death.com seem different. They seem more religiously oriented. They have classic Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish NDEs. The Christian ones are the ones where people"telepathically" talk to a light they interpret as God, they have a life review, sometimes meet demons and experience "hell" until they call out to Jesus. I wonder if like you said, it could be that some of these "atheists" really are seeing "hell" in their minds, but only because they don't expect to see something. Then, when their brains are in this ND stage, they think that life really does continue. This causes them to panic and think that they must go to hell because that is what their parents and their communities told them. Interestingly, I have seen many Christian videos of atheists seeing hell. I also saw a few NDE videos of people who grew up in India as atheists, but they did not see hell. One man had a past life review and although he was not that nice he was only told to shape up. Another man was an atheist but was still taken to a beautiful water stream and fields. Of course, now both of them believe in a spiritual realm lol.

You said yourself that the site seems religiously oriented. So what makes you think that they're not playing fast and loose with their supposedly 'atheist' testimonials? It's not at all uncommon for Christian apologists to claim to be former atheists, to lend extra weight to their supposed conversion. If I wanted to sell people on Christian NDE's being legit, I can see how making up NDE stories where atheists experience the Christian afterlife are meant to be corroborative and add legitimacy to the Christian claims. The tag line writes itself "Of course Christian heaven and hell are real, even atheists NDE's experience it".

The main author of the site has a page about himself where he quotes bible versus. I think that is pretty evident that he is a Christian. Then, on the site, he also has a few Hindu and Jewish NDEs. However, there are only like 2 Hindu examples and like 50 Christian examples. I wonder if he is trying to incorporate all of the faiths a little bit so that he looks as though he is not biased.
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24-12-2016, 01:24 AM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(24-12-2016 12:52 AM)joker-chick Wrote:  The main author of the site has a page about himself where he quotes bible versus. I think that is pretty evident that he is a Christian. Then, on the site, he also has a few Hindu and Jewish NDEs. However, there are only like 2 Hindu examples and like 50 Christian examples. I wonder if he is trying to incorporate all of the faiths a little bit so that he looks as though he is not biased.

So in light of all that, what makes you think that author has any credibility?

Is his site, and the claims made on it, independently verifiable? Or are you just taking the website's claims at face value? If they can be verified, who verified them, and by what evidence?

If his only evidence is "trust me, I verified them", then he and his entire site needs to go fuck themselves.

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24-12-2016, 01:28 AM
RE: What do you guys think of this NDE testimony?
(23-12-2016 11:22 PM)joker-chick Wrote:  It's more likely that there are holes in the story like you said. The reason I am asking is that I need a lot of reassurance because the site that I got it from has many examples of atheists going to hell during their NDEs and I am trying to debunk the stories so that I feel confident that this is not true. I fear hell because I was raised Christian and Christians talk about it a lot. Also, many of my friends and loved ones are atheists and I myself am agnostic and I don't believe the bible but I still fear the what if factor of hell.

Considering the fact that there is no evidence for existence of something called hell there is no reason for debunking.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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