What do you make of this type of Christianity?
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12-07-2014, 10:51 AM
What do you make of this type of Christianity?
This is something I've noticed on this forum, as well as pretty much every other discussion of Christianity among Atheists. Nearly all of the energy that's put into deconstructing Christianity is focused on the evangelical side of the religion. That's important, don't get me wrong, but I have yet to see anyone take a serious look at progressive Christianity. I'm interested to see what you all think. Here are some videos from some prominent members.















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12-07-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
(12-07-2014 10:51 AM)Nogon Wrote:  This is something I've noticed on this forum, as well as pretty much every other discussion of Christianity among Atheists. Nearly all of the energy that's put into deconstructing Christianity is focused on the evangelical side of the religion. That's important, don't get me wrong, but I have yet to see anyone take a serious look at progressive Christianity. I'm interested to see what you all think. Here are some videos from some prominent members.

No, we don't concentrate on the evangelicals. All of the supernatural crap, like life after death (where the first video starts), is debunked here.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
I admit I have a soft spot for the liberals. They are far less nutty. But in the end, it's all just as meaningless. They're much nicer about it, but it's still all based on many of the same historical errors.

In some ways I think of them as in the process of working their way out of it. In fact I was going to start a thread about this. Not so much "rejecting" faith and religious concepts, just "moving beyond them" ("coming out the other end" ???), ("growing beyond it"). Trouble is, that might only apply to people who grew up with it, and lived it intensely for a while, and see life is basically the same, with or without religion.

What got me thinking about this was last year (or the year before) the Summer meeting of the US Conference of Women Religious, had as the title of one of the conferences, "Moving beyond Jesus". It would be difficult to explain that to anyone who doesn't actually know any of these people, but I really don't know what they actually believe, (not it really matters). I mean even I could stand up and recite the Nicaean Creed and mentally insert my own meanings in it, and have no problem with it. More and more I think it's just a "different set of linguistics", (for the liberals). They use phrases and words that they know are not literally true, yet something about their repeated use, makes them more comfortable, than not.

Spong is popular here : http://progressivechristianity.org/
as is Bernard Scott. (He's a fine scholar).

It's kind of new-agey woo woo as far as I'm concerned, but, at least they're not so obnoxious.

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12-07-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
Liberal "Mainline" Christians tend to believe (or profess) that the "real historical Jesus" was quite up to date in His opinions, just like themselves.

Never mind the implausibility of someone from the first century CE being that way. They think it's obvious that a man as good and great as Jesus had to be just like themselves, only perfect at it (what with being God and all). Cool

Liberal Judaism is a double helping of whatever is in fashion with liberal Christianity, minus the Jesus stuff. Tongue

Nonsense is nonsense, but the history of nonsense is a very important science.
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12-07-2014, 08:21 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
I think that whilst Chas is right that we don't concentrate on the evangelicals as such, they're the ones that raise the debate because their beliefs are much more in conflict with many of our own. They're also much more about proselytising and tend to much less tolerant of other views, so in a way they bring our ire upon themselves...

For me liberal Christianity - and indeed other liberal forms of religion are just a couple of steps further along a road to humanistic principles as their core values. This is all to the good. I often find these the most interesting to debate - although not as entertaining as a YEC and for the most part I don't have a problem with them.

My problem comes when they refuse to speak out against the evangelicals who hold reprehensible beliefs on the basis that we should 'respect' their right to hold them. We don't need to respect the belief, we need to allow them to have them - but respect is something which has to be earned and so when a liberal believer doesn't pour scorn on a YEC, or a Westboro, or a Jihadist - that's where I have a real issue. It also worries me that they revert to literalism when it suits their argument - they try and have it both ways and it's unfair to change the rules of the game when you're still playing...

Just my two penn'orth...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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12-07-2014, 08:30 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
Having watched the John Shelby Spong clips I would have to say that the guy has some very laudable ideas and messages and is one step from Deism which as we all know is one step from Agnosticism...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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13-07-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
I only watched the first video. That guy seems ok. He can believe what he wishes like the afterlife. Who knows maybe he's right. I don't know. My problem with religion has always been with the control he talks about and the fact that idiots use it to stunt progress. Beyond that believe whatever nonsense you want. Aside from having an interesting conversation why would I care? Why should I care?
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13-07-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
(12-07-2014 10:51 AM)Nogon Wrote:  Nearly all of the energy that's put into deconstructing Christianity is focused on the evangelical side of the religion. That's important, don't get me wrong, but I have yet to see anyone take a serious look at progressive Christianity. I'm interested to see what you all think.

My wife is a very liberal Christian. She believes in evolution, doesn't believe in hell, and believes everyone is going to heaven. I do really prefer this to the hatred and ignorance you frequently see from fundamentalism, but at the end of the day, any argument that leads to a conclusion of "God" is going to be presuppositional.
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13-07-2014, 08:57 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
"Progressive" Christianity is simply a christards way of getting your prom dress off before you've realized its on the limousine floor and you're getting it in both doors.

Its the sheep FINALLY figuring out that their bible is just too fucking stupid to believe and simply cherry picking out the good/bad stuff. It's still the same old shit, they're just dressing it up as "a religion for the millennium." It's the idea that, "see, we're not so bad, come give us a try." When what they should be doing is letting their primitive ideas die with all the other ridiculous dead religions.
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13-07-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: What do you make of this type of Christianity?
Generally, the evangelicals tend to be the most vocal, and/or militant...

The liberal believers, who generally have a much more mature, thought out approach to the subject, are not the ones trying to force creationism into classrooms, outlaw abortion or demonize gays and atheists.

As the old saying goes... "The enemy of my enemy, is my friend".

If moderate, open minded Christians are opposed to fundamentalism, ignorance and intolerance, then I'm on their side. The question of God's existence is nothing more than a difference of opinion, and is largely irrelevant.

What people privately believe, is of no consequence to me. Its when they use those beliefs to justify immoral behavior that I take issue.

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But I would slave to learn the way to sink your ship of fools
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