Poll: If you are an atheist, how do you define atheist?
1) Gods do not exist.
2) No gods exist.
3) Do not accept the claims that gods exist.
4) Do not accept the claims that gods exist due to lack of evidence.
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What do you mean by "Atheist"?
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30-08-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you.

But please grasp what it is that causes us to say "we lack belief".

It's really very simple. For a moment, pretend that you've never heard of Jesus or anything else in the Bible, and neither has anyone else. Blank all that from your mind.

Now I ask you, "Tell me why you believe there is no Zeus."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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30-08-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
I think the word "believe" has too much of an acquired connotation to be used as liberally as some would have me do.

When I think of belief, I think of my aunt's staunch, unwavering belief in the catholic church. It means that she clings to this "belief system" no matter what happens. Nobody and nothing can make her devotion falter.

Really, the word "believe" is more like saying, I don't know this but I think it to be so. I assume it is so. Otherwise "believe" is redundant, there is no need to believe when you actually know something.

Because of these differing perceptions, it is almost impossible to discuss "belief" with theists. We do not mean the same thing.

So I prefer saying that I think that the sun will come up in the morning, and that I think I'll make a run into town later today.

I COULD use the word "believe" in these situations, but "think" or "assume" convey my meaning much better. There is always a possibility that we are blown to smithereens and the sun won't come up tomorrow and if I get distracted enough, I'll postpone my trip into town til tomorrow. But for now, I am assuming these two events are going to happen.

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30-08-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
Or another example.

"Do you believe that there's a man named Steve living in apartment 924 at 43 A Street in Chicago?"
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30-08-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 02:15 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Or another example.

"Do you believe that there's a man named Steve living in apartment 924 at 43 A Street in Chicago?"

His name is Stephen, you heretic scum.

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30-08-2015, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 30-08-2015 06:04 PM by Tomasia.)
What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 01:34 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you.

But please grasp what it is that causes us to say "we lack belief".

I can sort of get that. I can think of a similar hesitation on my part when talking with atheists as well. Like with the word "know". Where as I would say I know my parents are my biological parents to others, but since know suggests absolute certainty to many atheists, I have to replace know, with strongly believing.


Quote:It's really very simple. For a moment, pretend that you've never heard of Jesus or anything else in the Bible, and neither has anyone else. Blank all that from your mind.

Now I ask you, "Tell me why you believe there is no Zeus."

Because I'm probably an Alex Rosenberg variety physicalist in this hypothetical scenario, which leaves no room for spooky stuff of pagan religions. My beliefs, my views on reality, my worldview negates the pagan worldview.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-08-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 08:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And the reluctance by atheists such as yourself to say things like "I believe the universe is uncreated; I believe the the human life was not inevitability, that the our appearance in the cosmos was a fluke, etc...

"Atheists" say this? It doesn't require an atheist to say those things. Anybody can say those things.

You don't understand atheists at all. Our views on things not relative to our mutual atheism are as diverse from each other as they are from people of faith.

Would you say such a thing about black people? White people? Asian?

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30-08-2015, 05:47 PM
What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 02:15 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Or another example.

"Do you believe that there's a man named Steve living in apartment 924 at 43 A Street in Chicago?"


I don't know one way or the other. I don't even know if there's actual 43 A St. in Chicago, let alone an apt being there, or if a tenant named Steve occupies one of its supposed rooms.

I lack a belief. I can't even guess one way or the other. Or any reason to assume he does, or doesn't.

*** a two sec Google search didn't reveal an apt at that supposed location in Chicago. Therefore there is no Steve living in a particular. room there.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-08-2015, 05:57 PM
What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 02:14 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think the word "believe" has too much of an acquired connotation to be used as liberally as some would have me do.

When I think of belief, I think of my aunt's staunch, unwavering belief in the catholic church. It means that she clings to this "belief system" no matter what happens. Nobody and nothing can make her devotion falter.

Really, the word "believe" is more like saying, I don't know this but I think it to be so. I assume it is so. Otherwise "believe" is redundant, there is no need to believe when you actually know something.

Because of these differing perceptions, it is almost impossible to discuss "belief" with theists. We do not mean the same thing.

So I prefer saying that I think that the sun will come up in the morning, and that I think I'll make a run into town later today.

I COULD use the word "believe" in these situations, but "think" or "assume" convey my meaning much better. There is always a possibility that we are blown to smithereens and the sun won't come up tomorrow and if I get distracted enough, I'll postpone my trip into town til tomorrow. But for now, I am assuming these two events are going to happen.

I don't know my parents are my biological parents. I believe they are.

What would you say about yours? That you think they're your biological parents?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-08-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 05:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I lack a belief. I can't even guess one way or the other. Or any reason to assume he does, or doesn't.

Thumbsup

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30-08-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: What do you mean by "Atheist"?
(30-08-2015 05:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 02:14 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think the word "believe" has too much of an acquired connotation to be used as liberally as some would have me do.

When I think of belief, I think of my aunt's staunch, unwavering belief in the catholic church. It means that she clings to this "belief system" no matter what happens. Nobody and nothing can make her devotion falter.

Really, the word "believe" is more like saying, I don't know this but I think it to be so. I assume it is so. Otherwise "believe" is redundant, there is no need to believe when you actually know something.

Because of these differing perceptions, it is almost impossible to discuss "belief" with theists. We do not mean the same thing.

So I prefer saying that I think that the sun will come up in the morning, and that I think I'll make a run into town later today.

I COULD use the word "believe" in these situations, but "think" or "assume" convey my meaning much better. There is always a possibility that we are blown to smithereens and the sun won't come up tomorrow and if I get distracted enough, I'll postpone my trip into town til tomorrow. But for now, I am assuming these two events are going to happen.

I don't know my parents are my biological parents. I believe they are.

What would you say about yours? That you think they're your biological parents?

Hmm, they probably are. I resemble both in some physical characteristics. It's not a given, though, due to the circumstances in their lives. It is possible that I was adopted, late in their lives, after many miscarriages and child deaths. If I was, they didn't tell me. I tend to think that my brother was not dad's son though, born post war in occupied territory with rape a common occurrence... and being very different from the rest of the family.

Bad example. Smile I'll have to say I don't know.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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