What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
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26-04-2013, 04:36 PM
What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
Would you say it's a violation of church and state for a prison to sponsor an event that allows an outside group to put together a family day for inmates? The outside group is a Christian association and the event includes a full day of activities where inmate's children can come onto the prison and spend the entire day with them. Part of the program requires that you attend an 8 hour seminar that is basically Sunday morning mass on how to be a good dad and a good Christian. If you do not attend the seminar you cannot have your children visit for the day and there is no alternative for other religions/nonreligious. Now clearly if this was Chick Fil A or Target or another private company they'd be free to promote or sponsor any program they wish. But IMO this being a state run facility it's a clear violation of the 1st amendment and violates the separation of church and state. Others (Christians) say that it's no big deal because it's just the group's deal and they can do as they wish and since no one is forced to participate it's not an issue. IMO although non Christians are welcomed to attend and have their kids come for the day it's clearly preferred treatment for Christians.

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26-04-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
(26-04-2013 04:36 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Would you say it's a violation of church and state for a prison to sponsor an event that allows an outside group to put together a family day for inmates? The outside group is a Christian association and the event includes a full day of activities where inmate's children can come onto the prison and spend the entire day with them. Part of the program requires that you attend an 8 hour seminar that is basically Sunday morning mass on how to be a good dad and a good Christian. If you do not attend the seminar you cannot have your children visit for the day and there is no alternative for other religions/nonreligious. Now clearly if this was Chick Fil A or Target or another private company they'd be free to promote or sponsor any program they wish. But IMO this being a state run facility it's a clear violation of the 1st amendment and violates the separation of church and state. Others (Christians) say that it's no big deal because it's just the group's deal and they can do as they wish and since no one is forced to participate it's not an issue. IMO although non Christians are welcomed to attend and have their kids come for the day it's clearly preferred treatment for Christians.

I'd call it a violation by the prison for allowing the unequal treatment.

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26-04-2013, 06:22 PM
RE: What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
(26-04-2013 04:36 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Would you say it's a violation of church and state for a prison to sponsor an event that allows an outside group to put together a family day for inmates? The outside group is a Christian association and the event includes a full day of activities where inmate's children can come onto the prison and spend the entire day with them. Part of the program requires that you attend an 8 hour seminar that is basically Sunday morning mass on how to be a good dad and a good Christian. If you do not attend the seminar you cannot have your children visit for the day and there is no alternative for other religions/nonreligious. Now clearly if this was Chick Fil A or Target or another private company they'd be free to promote or sponsor any program they wish. But IMO this being a state run facility it's a clear violation of the 1st amendment and violates the separation of church and state. Others (Christians) say that it's no big deal because it's just the group's deal and they can do as they wish and since no one is forced to participate it's not an issue. IMO although non Christians are welcomed to attend and have their kids come for the day it's clearly preferred treatment for Christians.

The 8-hour seminar is the part of the event most open to abuse. It would be unrealistic to expect a Christian group to keep their religion out of that seminar. So I'd say it's a problem for church/state separation.
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27-04-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
(26-04-2013 06:22 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(26-04-2013 04:36 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Would you say it's a violation of church and state for a prison to sponsor an event that allows an outside group to put together a family day for inmates? The outside group is a Christian association and the event includes a full day of activities where inmate's children can come onto the prison and spend the entire day with them. Part of the program requires that you attend an 8 hour seminar that is basically Sunday morning mass on how to be a good dad and a good Christian. If you do not attend the seminar you cannot have your children visit for the day and there is no alternative for other religions/nonreligious. Now clearly if this was Chick Fil A or Target or another private company they'd be free to promote or sponsor any program they wish. But IMO this being a state run facility it's a clear violation of the 1st amendment and violates the separation of church and state. Others (Christians) say that it's no big deal because it's just the group's deal and they can do as they wish and since no one is forced to participate it's not an issue. IMO although non Christians are welcomed to attend and have their kids come for the day it's clearly preferred treatment for Christians.

The 8-hour seminar is the part of the event most open to abuse. It would be unrealistic to expect a Christian group to keep their religion out of that seminar. So I'd say it's a problem for church/state separation.

I don't know that I could argue the legality of it becasue they don't exclude anyone from attending. Mormons and Jews and Muslims are welcomed to attend. The problem is that they have to endure hours of speech on how Jesus is Lord and how they won't make it in life without accepting Jesus as their savior. It's just not fair to others who want their kids to come visit but aren't Christian. Today was the visit day so I got to see lots of kids see their dads, some for the first time ever. There was a skit based on John the Baptist and a Christian gospel puppet show. Also several guest speakers preaching Christianity. I happen to know for a fact that their were Muslims in the group. They suffered through it for the ability to spend 7 hours with their kids.

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27-04-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: What do you think about this scenario? (church/state related)
Wait, you're in prison? I did not know this. Ohh, prison guard?

As Chas said, I'd say it's a problem by the prison to not allow other groups, ie: Muslim or Jewish to do the same.
I think you can have the same sort of thing but without all the religious bs AND you don't put across the message that you have to be a Christian to be a good person...

I imagine there is a lot of bible thumping that goes on in prisons actually. But then again, I watch too much TV.

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