What do you think is you?
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19-05-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: What do you think is you?
(19-05-2014 10:56 AM)living thing Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 10:30 AM)Dom Wrote:  Nice for trans-sexuals. Smile
Have you ever considered what our societies might be like if human beings had been hermaphrodites?

Sounds nice, twice as many fish in the pond....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
(19-05-2014 11:21 AM)Dom Wrote:  ... much of the function of the brain is not conscious until it runs into an obstacle.

Now that's a concept I hadn't considered: that the function of consciousness is to process the novel. The routine and repetitious gets shunted into the subconscious, to keep us functioning and alive (we're born with certain nervous activities like breathing so deeply embedded in the subconscious nervous system they can't be overriden), while it is our conscious selves that process new experience. Hmmm. Consciousness evolved as a means of successfully surviving environmental change.

That would explain why we dislike tedium, and actively seek the novel - it's what our conscious engine is designed for. In a non-novel environment it finds itself frustrated. It's no accident prisons are built to be as bland as possible, so as to maximally deprive the conscious mind of what it craves most.

Only a human mind could conceive of a prison. So far as we know we're the only consciousness conscious of the fact that it's conscious. A meta-consciouness, capable of self reflection. It's much too early since the emergence of that biological capability to assess its success - so far it seems to have worked out, but it has also created, on purpose, the means to annihilate itself entirely.

So here's another question - does self-consciousness have an innate tendency to believe in a larger consciousness? I think atheism has to be learned: cultural theism is too embedded for anyone to grow through childhood without exposure to it, and since we believe our parents, religious belief is almost automatic, at first.

Thanks for that insight.
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12-06-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
(19-05-2014 08:44 AM)living thing Wrote:  If a brilliant surgeon with an unusual sense of humour transplanted your brain to a different body, so that the new body behaved just like the old one but simply looked different, would that still be you?

In other words, what is it about you that makes you you? Your physical person? Your abstract persona? Neither? Both? Both and something else?

Cheers!

I am my mind, not my brain. The brain simply processes information, but the mind is the reservoir of information and is wirelessly accessed by the body. Upon death, the brain dies with the body, but the mind does not. We live on, life goes on. Our spirit is like our mind that lives on. If a surgeon was to transplant two brains with each other, they would still be themselves but the processing of info may have differences according to how the brain functions, yet the people would feel themselves, not any different, for their mind would be the same, the reservoir of info would still be the same.
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12-06-2014, 09:33 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
njhbghjghyjfvffh
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12-06-2014, 10:15 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
(12-06-2014 09:32 PM)Beena Jain Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 08:44 AM)living thing Wrote:  If a brilliant surgeon with an unusual sense of humour transplanted your brain to a different body, so that the new body behaved just like the old one but simply looked different, would that still be you?

In other words, what is it about you that makes you you? Your physical person? Your abstract persona? Neither? Both? Both and something else?

Cheers!

I am my mind, not my brain. The brain simply processes information, but the mind is the reservoir of information and is wirelessly accessed by the body. Upon death, the brain dies with the body, but the mind does not. We live on, life goes on. Our spirit is like our mind that lives on. If a surgeon was to transplant two brains with each other, they would still be themselves but the processing of info may have differences according to how the brain functions, yet the people would feel themselves, not any different, for their mind would be the same, the reservoir of info would still be the same.

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

It's always good to read about unconventional views.

You made a few assertions there that would be difficult to support with evidence. You may find that your views will be challenged. I look forward to the discussion.

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12-06-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
(12-06-2014 09:33 PM)Beena Jain Wrote:  njhbghjghyjfvffh

Well, that's easy for you say. Big Grin

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13-06-2014, 02:19 AM
RE: What do you think is you?
(19-05-2014 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  I don't know enough biology to answer that.

I do know that our minds are heavily influenced by chemicals that our body produces, some continuously and some on special occasions.

There is a constant back and forth between the glands and the brain.

What if the new body has glands that function on different levels? Will that not affect my brain?

We do know that individuals produce different levels of these chemicals, hence we have drugs that stimulate/imitate some of these chemicals.

Consciousness is in the brain and that is all you need to be conscious, but whether you act like your old self is another story I think.

Someone with more knowledge may want to weigh in on this, like one of our docs...

I'm not a doctor, but may I weigh in?

While it is correct that our brains are influenced by the chemicals produced by the body, and that each human varies in production, I would argue that the change would be relatively insignificant to one's sense of 'self'.
The production of specific hormones, which affect the brain, is determined by the brain itself; assuming that your brain's hormonal regulatory centres (for instance, the hypothalamus) isn't damaged and functions exactly as it did before, the new 'host body' (for lack of a better term) would in all likelihood produce hormones at the rate your previous body did due to the regulation of hormone production and release.

Of course, if the new 'host body' is damaged or inoperable, with for instance, a malfunctioning pituitary gland, nerves or mutations preventing adequate control or release and production, then of course you will have problems.

So, assuming optimum conditions in the new body, and that your brain isn't damaged in the transfer, it ought to be business as usual up in the neurocircuitry.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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17-06-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
(19-05-2014 08:44 AM)living thing Wrote:  If a brilliant surgeon with an unusual sense of humour transplanted your brain to a different body, so that the new body behaved just like the old one but simply looked different, would that still be you?

In other words, what is it about you that makes you you? Your physical person? Your abstract persona? Neither? Both? Both and something else?

Cheers!
If you ask about essentialism, some kind of unique "essence of self", then the answer is probably no. The body is a machine that works by biology, chemistry, electricity, information and mechanics.
However, transplanting just a brain isn't enough. The personality is also largely influenced by secondary neuron centers all over the body (heart plexus or solar plexus for example) and by the state of ductless endocrine glands.
For example, if you suffered from a lack of testosteron and then your brain was transplanted into a body of some macho man with big balls, your personality would change towards manliness and skirt-chasing. All the other glands work the same. And they are not just mood controls. Size of adrenal glands does not just control aggressiveness, in animals it also controls all behavior and appearance. The main difference between a wolf and dog is a size of adrenal glands, that changes fur, ears and tail.

There are also some rather freaky rumors about electric pathways in body that also affect health and behavior, they're supposed to form as ion channels in layers of hyaluronic acid, polarized by current between different qualities of blood between veins and arteries. They are highly influenced by thought (the same way that lie detector works) and may be one of the placebo mechanisms. The electric properties of our tissue are a factor too and they don't change easily.
(discovered by radiologist Bjorn Nordenström)

So basically, what we are is so deeply tied with most of our cells, that just changing brain is not enough.
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17-06-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
It'd still be me, but if the sensory input was unlike what I was accustomed to (say, for example, my brain were transplanted into a blind person's body), it would change me, eventually. Not as a direct result of the transplant, but as a result of different sensory input.

"Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh, and a new world awaits you. We demand it."

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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17-06-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: What do you think is you?
If my brain were to be transferred into a different body with all memories still intact I figure that I would fundamentally be the same person I was before.

I wonder how long it would take to no longer be startled by the different image in the mirror. Huh

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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