What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
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11-08-2015, 10:19 AM
Rainbow What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
I hoping the rainbow will catch your eye Laugh out load I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this question in. If it isn't, please tell me so I don't tick everyone off.

I'm wondering what you all think about Christians who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, etc. Right before I deconverted, I used a forum for LGBTQ Christians. When I joined, I was questioning then I eventually found out that I was bisexual. Someone (who I'm no longer friends) from school with wanted me to join the forum because she was also Christian and struggling with her sexuality, and she said the forum was helping her. I will admit, I did enjoy the time I spent on the forum, before I told everyone that I was a deist and later an agnostic then I basically got harassed and I felt compelled to leave.
To be honest, they are no better than the average conservative who is against their rights and what not. A lot of people on that site are extremely militant when it comes to their faith--and not in a passionate way, I would say in a very threatening and insecure way--and it noticed it was more "Christian" then "LGBTQ" which confused me a little. They did the typical Christian stuff, denying that they had a burden of proof and thinking that evil in the world and hell were both justified. There are a lot of condescending adults there who loved to through out the "you're too young" card at me when they didn't want to answer my questions (I've actually noticed...religious adults are so condescending, unlike atheist or non-religious adults...not surprising honestly). I have a lot of good memories from being on that website but I also have a lot of bad ones. I try to get over my emotions though and not base all LGBTQ Christians on the really snobby or stupid ones I remember from that forum.

Now that I've been an atheist for a while now, and I'm more confident in my sexuality, I personally think that while you can be Christian and LGBTQ (I mean it's your right)...you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. A lot of Christians think you're going to hell and they don't want you to have rights. In African countries like Uganda, you can go to jail for being gay. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination and talks about it in a negative light in both the OT and the NT. Some LGBTQ Christians interpret this as homosexual sex being bad instead of homosexuality itself. So they just remain celibate for life. I don't really think that's fair for them that they can't have sex just because God thinks it's gross or whatever. I'm not sure if these celibate Christians think they can get married or not.

Well...I kind of dumbed down my opinion a little bit because it's actually a lot stronger than that but I think it's more emotional than objective, because I am part of the LGBTQ community. And I'm not actually sure if these Biblical verses that anti-gay Christians love to pull out are actually talking about homosexual intercourse as opposed to homosexuality and same-sex attractions...
I want to know what everyone else thinks about this, if that is okay Smile
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11-08-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
I've never understood it. Why would a member of the gay community want to be associated with an organisation that openly rejects them?
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11-08-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
What's scary about the Bible is that its reading can be left up to the interpreter. The fact that there are so many contradictions and contributing writers doesn't help matters either. Some passages in the Bible are very hateful toward LGBTQ. But, there is also another passage with David and Jonathan that seems to indicate a romantic type of relationship between the two of them. Some more liberal Christians I know take this stance, while the more conservative Christians I know go with the first biblical viewpoint.

The Bible is a dangerous book. It is also a collection of stories. I'm glad you are free of all of that and are not living your life based on a collection of ancient stories. Live your life on your own terms--that is the only philosophy you need to worry about Thumbsup
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11-08-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
There is nothing that special about that, they just cherry-pick their religion to find things that they agree with and ignore the rest, just like all other theists.

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11-08-2015, 10:29 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(11-08-2015 10:23 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I've never understood it. Why would a member of the gay community want to be associated with an organisation that openly rejects them?

Because they are indoctrinated into the church and they believe in god. And either they are shamed or feared into renouncing their sexuality or in more liberal churches, are accepted and allowed to worship.
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11-08-2015, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2015 11:00 AM by Reducetarian.)
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
Hello, and welcome to TTA.
I view "LGBTQ Christians" as being on a road towards enlightenment and true freedom from religion.

There was a time when I was a devout, liberal Catholic, who put up with the Catholic church's ridiculous stance on women's rights, contraception, abortion, etc. because I didn't want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

But when my local Catholic church began taking an increasingly militant stand against LGBTQ rights, I could not justify the inherent hypocrisy of that stance, which led me to question my beliefs, and eventually, to become an atheist.
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard (many of my liberal, former-Catholic friends have said the same).
Given this, I will always be grateful to those a**holes in positions of Catholic leadership who started persecuting the LGBTQ community, thus showing everyone their true colours, and I am very grateful to those who have fought, and continue to fight, for LGBTQ rights (which are human rights, after all)

The more the Christian idiots rail against LGBTQ, the more people of good character begin to recognize Christianity (and by extension, other religions) for what it truly is: a fear-mongering means of control.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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11-08-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
I currently have two friends (both gay men) and one family member (lesbian) that are active church-goers and would call themselves Christians. My family member attends a non-denominational church with her spouse. One of my friends is Catholic, attends mass with his spouse, and is actively engaged in church ministries as a layperson. The other is Methodist and single. All of these people are fantastic, fun to be around, and very accepting of other people and their beliefs. As far as I know, none of them see their homosexual lifestyle as sinful and needing to be suppressed. Even though my family member is often told that by some of my other dumb-ass relatives. They all, however, feel the burden of somehow reconciling themselves with their religion.

My relationship with these people, combined with the language of the Bible regarding homosexuality and the subsequent attempt by liberal Christians to reinterpret or discount passages of the Bible, was one of the contributing factors to the cognitive dissonance that led to my own eventual deconversion.

I only wish I could pull back the curtain of religion from their eyes so that they could see themselves the way I see them. That is that they are beautiful fellow human beings with no need to defend or apologize for how they were formed by nature and/or nurture, equal in every way with all other humans, and capable of doing wonderful things or no things at all however they might choose.

I also have Christian friends that are redneck, black, divorced, female, lawyers, and more (not all at the same time) if you'd like an expert opinion on them as well. Big Grin

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11-08-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
I simply don't agree with the position they hold. As individuals or as a collective, they're actively being ostracized and ridiculed, but some of them are utilizing the same language of hate as the oppressive voices they face, to demonize others of differing beliefs.

In those situations, it's hypocrisy and double speak from the very people asking for fair treatment. I'm 100% on the side of those who face oppressive conditions, but oppression is a multi faceted issue requiring a great deal more resolve then some are willing to expel.
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11-08-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(11-08-2015 10:19 AM)PrettyGirlRock Wrote:  I hoping the rainbow will catch your eye Laugh out load I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this question in. If it isn't, please tell me so I don't tick everyone off.

I'm wondering what you all think about Christians who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, etc. Right before I deconverted, I used a forum for LGBTQ Christians. When I joined, I was questioning then I eventually found out that I was bisexual. Someone (who I'm no longer friends) from school with wanted me to join the forum because she was also Christian and struggling with her sexuality, and she said the forum was helping her. I will admit, I did enjoy the time I spent on the forum, before I told everyone that I was a deist and later an agnostic then I basically got harassed and I felt compelled to leave.
To be honest, they are no better than the average conservative who is against their rights and what not. A lot of people on that site are extremely militant when it comes to their faith--and not in a passionate way, I would say in a very threatening and insecure way--and it noticed it was more "Christian" then "LGBTQ" which confused me a little. They did the typical Christian stuff, denying that they had a burden of proof and thinking that evil in the world and hell were both justified. There are a lot of condescending adults there who loved to through out the "you're too young" card at me when they didn't want to answer my questions (I've actually noticed...religious adults are so condescending, unlike atheist or non-religious adults...not surprising honestly). I have a lot of good memories from being on that website but I also have a lot of bad ones. I try to get over my emotions though and not base all LGBTQ Christians on the really snobby or stupid ones I remember from that forum.

Now that I've been an atheist for a while now, and I'm more confident in my sexuality, I personally think that while you can be Christian and LGBTQ (I mean it's your right)...you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. A lot of Christians think you're going to hell and they don't want you to have rights. In African countries like Uganda, you can go to jail for being gay. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination and talks about it in a negative light in both the OT and the NT. Some LGBTQ Christians interpret this as homosexual sex being bad instead of homosexuality itself. So they just remain celibate for life. I don't really think that's fair for them that they can't have sex just because God thinks it's gross or whatever. I'm not sure if these celibate Christians think they can get married or not.

Well...I kind of dumbed down my opinion a little bit because it's actually a lot stronger than that but I think it's more emotional than objective, because I am part of the LGBTQ community. And I'm not actually sure if these Biblical verses that anti-gay Christians love to pull out are actually talking about homosexual intercourse as opposed to homosexuality and same-sex attractions...
I want to know what everyone else thinks about this, if that is okay Smile

First off, welcome to the forum!

My view of LGBTQ Christians is to regard those two as largely separate aspects of the same person... that sometimes have an unfortunate impact on one another.

The LGBTQ side, I got no problem with, they're people too, they like waffles when I like pancakes and that's not anything to get worked up over. (Okay, not the BEST of metaphors, but.) That said, they are an underrepresented, historically- (and to a lesser extent currently-) victimized minority, subject to oppression and discrimination, and therefore it is important to defend them.

As for Christians... they're a large, diverse, mixed bunch. Some of them are pretty okay, and some of them are outright fucktards, and their beliefs amplify their fucktardary. All of them believe stuff that just isn't true, but it's the fucktards that try to force those believes on others and use those beliefs to victimize others. The okay-Christians (let's just go ahead and call them liberal Christians versus conservative Christians, the sets aren't a perfect match but it's a good guideline) don't do that as much, and are often forces for good and social health. I'd think they'd be that without their faith just as much as with it, but their false beliefs are much less of a problem in society and I don't really see them as a problem. What's more, they're much less likely to embrace literal truth and Biblical inerrancy, which makes them a lot more flexible in their attitudes, beliefs, and reason.

Liberal Christians are more and more accepting and welcoming of the LGBTQ. Increasingly they are accepting the "lifestyle" outright, and even when they don't, even when it's officially on the list of doctrinal sins, it's not a big deal. Conservative Christianity... isn't accepting, in the same way that magma isn't cool to the touch. WHICH brand of Christianity the LGBTQ Christian is the big part of an issue. Liberally Christian and LGBTQ? No beef with them and they're likely in a reasonably safe place. Conservatively Christian and LGBTQ? THOSE DO NOT MIX WELL. I'm usually torn between worrying about what the hell is being done to these poor victims, and what they might do to others in an attempt to hide from or project their internal conflict.

Your exclusion from your board wasn't anything to do with being LGBTQ, or at least it doesn't sound that way. It had to do with you being an apostate.

One final thought... while it is of course your choice, I'd caution against you "dumbing down" your reaction because it arises from emotions at being part of two persecuted classes. That sort of emotional harm is a big part of what makes that sort of persecution wrong to begin with! It's useful growing a thick skin, sure, but that doesn't mean minimizing the wrong done by others.
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11-08-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
What do I think about LGBTQ Christians?
They are children of God.
I would bake a cake for their gay wedding.
I do not betray my faith by serving children of God.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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