What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
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12-08-2015, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2015 05:09 PM by Alla.)
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(12-08-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  If God is magically creating new, "perfect" bodies anyway, why can he not alter one to make it capable of bearing children (or providing sperm)?
God doesn't magically create new perfect bodies. God restores old bodies but with one difference - they are not mortal any more, they have no blood in veins. It makes them different from mortal bodies.
He has to restore every organ and not to create/add/take away new different ones.
Now back to your question
I believe that God can alter our physical bodies any way He wants. Like we( humans) can do it through surgery.
There are revelations from God and there are assumptions of men.
Revelation: God said that before we obtain physical bodies on Earth He created our spirits/spiritual bodies. Every one of us is spirit son or daughter of God. It means that spirits have gender - male or female in image and likeness of Gods.
My assumption: let's say we have gay couple - Adam and Adam. They are two male spirits. They are sons of God. Let's say that in this life they fell in love with each other. They had wonderful family and they were happy. May be they even adopted some children. They became great parents. Their children turned out to be kind and successful people.
Now resurrection. In order for them to become Gods so they would have fullness of happiness and eternal progression they need to procreate.
One of them needs female physical organs or female body.
It means that male spirit has to be trapped for all eternity in female body.
It would be very uncomfortable(continue my assumptions).
When you are not comfortable in your physical body you have no fullness of happiness. What kind of God are you if you don't have fullness of happiness?

(12-08-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So rape victims who refuse to marry the man who forcibly impregnated them are screwed unless they find another man to adopt the child?
rape victims can abort fetus. It is only fair to them and to future child. God gives this right to a woman. It is better if child never born to this woman than if he comes as a fruit of the rape/evil. It is not fair to this child. It is not fair to the woman.

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12-08-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(11-08-2015 10:19 AM)PrettyGirlRock Wrote:  I hoping the rainbow will catch your eye Laugh out load I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this question in. If it isn't, please tell me so I don't tick everyone off.

I'm wondering what you all think about Christians who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, etc. Right before I deconverted, I used a forum for LGBTQ Christians. When I joined, I was questioning then I eventually found out that I was bisexual. Someone (who I'm no longer friends) from school with wanted me to join the forum because she was also Christian and struggling with her sexuality, and she said the forum was helping her. I will admit, I did enjoy the time I spent on the forum, before I told everyone that I was a deist and later an agnostic then I basically got harassed and I felt compelled to leave.
To be honest, they are no better than the average conservative who is against their rights and what not. A lot of people on that site are extremely militant when it comes to their faith--and not in a passionate way, I would say in a very threatening and insecure way--and it noticed it was more "Christian" then "LGBTQ" which confused me a little. They did the typical Christian stuff, denying that they had a burden of proof and thinking that evil in the world and hell were both justified. There are a lot of condescending adults there who loved to through out the "you're too young" card at me when they didn't want to answer my questions (I've actually noticed...religious adults are so condescending, unlike atheist or non-religious adults...not surprising honestly). I have a lot of good memories from being on that website but I also have a lot of bad ones. I try to get over my emotions though and not base all LGBTQ Christians on the really snobby or stupid ones I remember from that forum.

Now that I've been an atheist for a while now, and I'm more confident in my sexuality, I personally think that while you can be Christian and LGBTQ (I mean it's your right)...you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. A lot of Christians think you're going to hell and they don't want you to have rights. In African countries like Uganda, you can go to jail for being gay. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination and talks about it in a negative light in both the OT and the NT. Some LGBTQ Christians interpret this as homosexual sex being bad instead of homosexuality itself. So they just remain celibate for life. I don't really think that's fair for them that they can't have sex just because God thinks it's gross or whatever. I'm not sure if these celibate Christians think they can get married or not.

Well...I kind of dumbed down my opinion a little bit because it's actually a lot stronger than that but I think it's more emotional than objective, because I am part of the LGBTQ community. And I'm not actually sure if these Biblical verses that anti-gay Christians love to pull out are actually talking about homosexual intercourse as opposed to homosexuality and same-sex attractions...
I want to know what everyone else thinks about this, if that is okay Smile


I don't think Christ every said anything about Homosexuality. Think the idiot ministers just saw they could use it to get donations.
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12-08-2015, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2015 05:27 PM by Alla.)
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
Sorry, I didn't answer your questions. I understand now what you ask.

(12-08-2015 01:56 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  What about homosexual partnerships makes them less of an "eternal companion" deal than heterosexual ones?
Nothing about homosexuals that makes them less eternal companions. The problem is this: They can not procreate. It means they can not have eternal progression which means they can not have fullness of happiness. What kind of God are you if you have no fullness of happiness?
(12-08-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Unless they can't, at which point God will magically correct this upon entering the next life, given that they are "eternal companions".
at resurrection.
(12-08-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  But he refuses to do this for homosexual couples... why, exactly?

revelation:
we are spirits or spirit sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. Spirits have gender - male or female.

my assumption:
why He refuses to do this for homosexual couples?
- one of them will have to be trapped in opposite sex body. I assume it is very uncomfortable.
Why do I assume this? Transgenders(I hope I spelled it right). Are they happy when they are trapped in wrong body? according to them they are not happy.

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12-08-2015, 06:22 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(12-08-2015 05:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  God doesn't magically create new perfect bodies. God restores old bodies but with one difference - they are not mortal any more, they have no blood in veins. It makes them different from mortal bodies.
He has to restore every organ and not to create/add/take away new different ones.

So children born with defects like missing organs or limbs are out of luck, then?

And this seems like a completely arbitrary limitation placed on God's capabilities. I thought God was responsible for creating everyone. Why has he suddenly lost this ability in regards to altering the physical form you will wear in Heaven?

Or are you suggesting that God will literally pull your dead body out of the ground and magically restore it for you to use all over again? If so, what about cremation, decay, grave robbers, partial remains, and so on?

(12-08-2015 05:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  Now back to your question
I believe that God can alter our physical bodies any way He wants. Like we( humans) can do it through surgery.

In fewer ways than we can, apparently. Humans can (and do) fashion replacement limbs or organs as necessary to replace ones that have been lost or damaged, and aren't limited to using the things that are already there.

Humans also have the ability to alter one's functional gender, though this is a long, difficult, and delicate process that is still in its infancy. As the understanding of human gender and the ability to control hormone levels, produce artificial organs, and so forth advances, we will see this become still more pronounced.

Basically, if God is limited to just working with what's inside any one body, humans left him in the dust long ago, and we're only pulling farther ahead.

(12-08-2015 05:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  There are revelations from God and there are assumptions of men.
Revelation: God said that before we obtain physical bodies on Earth He created our spirits/spiritual bodies. Every one of us is spirit son or daughter of God. It means that spirits have gender - male or female in image and likeness of Gods.
My assumption: let's say we have gay couple - Adam and Adam. They are two male spirits. They are sons of God. Let's say that in this life they fell in love with each other. They had wonderful family and they were happy. May be they even adopted some children. They became great parents. Their children turned out to be kind and successful people.
Now resurrection. In order for them to become Gods so they would have fullness of happiness and eternal progression they need to procreate.
One of them needs female physical organs or female body.
It means that male spirit has to be trapped for all eternity in female body.
It would be very uncomfortable(continue my assumptions).
When you are not comfortable in your physical body you have no fullness of happiness. What kind of God are you if you don't have fullness of happiness?

How do transsexuals fit into this framework, then? Bodily dysphoria is a recognized medical phenomenon.

Beyond that, you seem to be confused as to what it is that is actually required to be "gods". Do you have to love someone and be happy, regardless of ability to have children together? Or do you have to have children, regardless of whether or not you have children?

You also don't seem to understand that some people outright don't want children, and that having them would actually make them unhappy. I tend to consider myself among them. The desire to procreate is not as universal as you seem to believe.

(12-08-2015 05:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So rape victims who refuse to marry the man who forcibly impregnated them are screwed unless they find another man to adopt the child?
rape victims can abort fetus. It is only fair to them and to future child. God gives this right to a woman. It is better if child never born to this woman than if he comes as a fruit of the rape/evil. It is not fair to this child. It is not fair to the woman.

And yet many women don't have that child aborted, for many and varied reasons. The question still stands: how does your god treat them?

(12-08-2015 05:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 01:56 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  What about homosexual partnerships makes them less of an "eternal companion" deal than heterosexual ones?
Nothing about homosexuals that makes them less eternal companions.

Then why did you bring it up?

(12-08-2015 05:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  The problem is this: They can not procreate. It means they can not have eternal progression

This is a new concept. What is "eternal progression"?

(12-08-2015 05:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  which means they can not have fullness of happiness. What kind of God are you if you have no fullness of happiness?

Having children is not a requirement for happiness.

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12-08-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
Alla: You pick and choose the features of this god you worship and follow. The Elohim that you learned of inside the temple is nothing more than a collection of previous myths known the world over.

Though I realize thinking isn't the strong point of fundamentalists/extremists, maybe the hamster wheel can rotate a bit.

You say that your god can change our bodies however and whenever it pleases, your words not mine. And I know your rebuttal if I even receive one, will be riddled with free will mumbo jumbo to mask the reality that your argument is entirely absent of substance.

So, this god who changes our bodies could easily change our neurological makeup, based on your understanding of its almighty power. If Elohim didn't want homosexual behavior to exist, it would've rid the animal kingdom of it, along with us. Insert blah blah blah free will blah blah blah empty rebuttal here.

To speak to your second falsehood, of gays and lesbian's not being granted entry into the celestial kingdom. You make the claim that blood won't be flowing through your exalted body (not officially recognized by your church I might add). Reproduction in your make believe hereafter has no relevance, if you don't have two warm bodies "rolling around". Again, your words not mine. Bloodless celestial beings don't stand up to either rational or irrational thinking.

If Elohim is all powerful, then just as easily as you say it can resurrect us in perfect bodies, it should be a miniscule task for it to assign us to correct genders, correct sexual orientation and while it's at it, throw in a little reproduction without the reproductive system.

FWIW, that last paragraph is how you sound to every person on this forum. Baseless claims devoid of legs to stand on, mixed with some intergalactic Mormon fundamentalism.
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12-08-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(12-08-2015 02:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 01:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  "All powerful"
1) God is all-powerful only in His Kingdom. He didn't say that He is omnipotent in kingdom's that are not His. He is NOT all-powerful in the kingdoms of other Gods.

Wait, what? I thought Mormonism was monotheistic. You're saying there are multiple Gods. Mormons are polytheistic?

Well I'll be damned. They are polytheistic.

#sigh
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12-08-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
So Zeus is King of the Mormon god?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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12-08-2015, 07:29 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
Alla, thanks for derailing the thread. You seem really annoying.
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12-08-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(11-08-2015 10:23 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I've never understood it. Why would a member of the gay community want to be associated with an organisation that openly rejects them?

What's even more confusing to me is gay Republicans like the Log Cabin Republicans.

#sigh
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12-08-2015, 08:13 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(12-08-2015 07:29 PM)PrettyGirlRock Wrote:  Alla, thanks for derailing the thread. You seem really annoying.

Oooooh, just hang around. The ability of theists in this regard is a never-ceasing fountain of facepalm.

By the way, PGR, if you haven't already noticed, check out the "View New Posts" option at the very top of the forum; it took me a week or so to notice it, and until then I almost exhausted myself trying to locate the threads I wanted to talk about by individually searching through the sub-topics.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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