What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
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13-08-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 12:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 11:34 AM)julep Wrote:  I asked the breeding machine question on a different thread and never got a response…I hope she gives you some kind of answer, as I would find it interesting. I personally find the idea of bearing children in this life fine--I have one myself--but breeding countless godlets in the afterlife strikes me as off-putting and not paradisiacal.
I answered above. If procreate children in eternity brings eternal progression and fullness of happiness I am for it. I want to have access to all the happiness that is available.
I also said that to be a breeding machine doesn't mean that Gods procreate every day or every week or every year.
may be they do it once in every .....lion years.

Whatever floats your boat. (It doesn't sound like a pleasant eternity to me.) I'm curious about your use of the word "if." Do you mean you are unsure that you'd want to be part of one of these god families, or are you unsure about your understanding of the afterlife?

Also, even when everything is working properly and as it's supposed to, having a kid hurts like hell. Do the afterlife bodies feel pain? Do the kids in the afterlife start out as underdeveloped babies and then grow as happens with babies here?

I've never talked with Mormons about their beliefs, so all of this is fascinating to me. I can't understand why any female would want to be a member of this religion, though. The rewards seem male-oriented only.
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13-08-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 08:26 AM)Alla Wrote:  It is not cruel towards many people who can start the path to self-destruction because of one person.
So one must die *cruelly* so that many can not be led astray.
May be. May be another person will think twice: do I want to pay this kind of penalty for breaking the contract/agreement/covenant?
I also believe(according to other things that God revealed) that God wouldn't kill those who said: I am out. I am leaving you, guys. I can not keep my promises any more. I am going to the Gentiles".
Those people would be free to go.
But only those who would teach that certain laws of God are wrong or stupid and they would want all people to accept what they say and do as the true doctrine, those had to go in a way that nobody else would wanted to destroy the souls of many.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta love God's justice. Also funny that God tasks *man* with carrying it out. Why can't he do his own dirty work?
May be Gods do not do dirty work? May be Gods progressed for higher level? May be dirty work is for those who can BECOME Gods.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also why not give us a proper book instead of this vague, stupid Bible subject to multiple revisions by lunatics?
God gives His Prophets and Apostles. They teach what God has to say TODAY in 21st century to His children.
What He said(many things) thousands of years ago may be not relevant today.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your God is imaginary, made up by priests to control you and others like you.
They do not control me. May be I just didn't notice it yet?Smile
No, really, how do they control me?
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's *why* your God is such a frikken control freak, not because he wants the best for you but because the priests know that if they give up even a little control they risk losing their nice comfy lifestyle, complete with crazy girls who want to be subservient breeding machines.
EVERY priest in true Church of God works to have bread on his table. Tithings do not go in their pockets. They pay tithings themselves. My bishop pays more than I do. My 10% is 10% of his tithing. While he makes big money(farming) his house is very simple. My house is much better.
Prophets. When they travel they do not stop in luxurious hotels. They stay at homes of the members. They do not eat in fency(did I spell it right?) restaurants.
They eat simple but good meals at members homes. Or may be at regular restaurants. They do not have luxurious homes and cars.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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13-08-2015, 12:54 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 12:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  So one must die *cruelly* so that many can not be led astray.
May be. May be another person will think twice: do I want to pay this kind of penalty for breaking the contract/agreement/covenant?
I also believe(according to other things that God revealed) that God wouldn't kill those who said: I am out. I am leaving you, guys. I can not keep my promises any more. I am going to the Gentiles".
Those people would be free to go.
But only those who would teach that certain laws of God are wrong or stupid and they would want all people to accept what they say and do as the true doctrine, those had to go in a way that nobody else would wanted to destroy the souls of many.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta love God's justice. Also funny that God tasks *man* with carrying it out. Why can't he do his own dirty work?
May be Gods do not do dirty work? May be Gods progressed for higher level? May be dirty work is for those who can BECOME Gods.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also why not give us a proper book instead of this vague, stupid Bible subject to multiple revisions by lunatics?
God gives His Prophets and Apostles. They teach what God has to say TODAY in 21st century to His children.
What He said(many things) thousands of years ago may be not relevant today.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your God is imaginary, made up by priests to control you and others like you.
They do not control me. May be I just didn't notice it yet?Smile
No, really, how do they control me?
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's *why* your God is such a frikken control freak, not because he wants the best for you but because the priests know that if they give up even a little control they risk losing their nice comfy lifestyle, complete with crazy girls who want to be subservient breeding machines.
EVERY priest in true Church of God works to have bread on his table. Tithings do not go in their pockets. They pay tithings themselves. My bishop pays more than I do. My 10% is 10% of his tithing. While he makes big money(farming) his house is very simple. My house is much better.
Prophets. When they travel they do not stop in luxurious hotels. They stay at homes of the members. They do not eat in fency(did I spell it right?) restaurants.
They eat simple but good meals at members homes. Or may be at regular restaurants. They do not have luxurious homes and cars.

They control through brainwashing. Read the following:

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised

Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

‪*The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪*Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

*Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

*The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

*The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

*The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

*The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

*The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪*The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

*Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

*The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

*The group is preoccupied with making money.

*Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

*Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

*The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

This checklist will be published in the new book, Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias (Berkeley: Bay Tree Publishing, 2006). It was adapted from a checklist originally developed by Michael Langone.

_

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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13-08-2015, 01:02 PM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2015 01:07 PM by Alla.)
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 12:36 PM)julep Wrote:  Whatever floats your boat. (It doesn't sound like a pleasant eternity to me.)
May be it doesn't sound now. Black Sea with big waves doesn't look pleasant to me until I jump into it. Ah, feels good.
Conchas negras that are still alive did not look to me like a pleasant meal until I tried it. Umm, yam.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm curious about your use of the word "if." Do you mean you are unsure that you'd want to be part of one of these god families, or are you unsure about your understanding of the afterlife?
God reveals things. Sometimes we understand them right away. Sometimes we have to work a little bit to understand them. Sometimes we are not going to understand them fully in this life.
So, if God says:" this will bring you fullness of happiness", then I want it. Whatever makes me more happy, baby, I want it.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also, even when everything is working properly and as it's supposed to, having a kid hurts like hell. Do the afterlife bodies feel pain?
No, they don't feel pain(according to the revelation from God).
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Do the kids in the afterlife start out as underdeveloped babies and then grow as happens with babies here?
According to the revelations from God, Gods(Male and Female) create spirit children. How? We do not know. I assume it is very pleasant process. later they create for them earth(planet). Then they created physical bodies for first Adam and Eve.(there are many Adams and many Eves). Then Adams and Eves create physical bodies for their children. So each spirit son or daughter of Gods can obtain physical body to become Gods in the future.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  I've never talked with Mormons about their beliefs, so all of this is fascinating to me. I can't understand why any female would want to be a member of this religion, though. The rewards seem male-oriented only.
Actually women in Church or Daughters of God are spoiled more than Sons. Membership brings so many blessings I can not even count them. Not only to women but to all members of the Church.
Every husband has a priesthood. but who benefits from it? wives and children.
Men have to do extra step to enter the Temple. Women may skip it. Easier for us.
Men and women in God's Kingdom have the same rights but different responsibilities. Because male and female are different.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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13-08-2015, 01:05 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 12:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  So one must die *cruelly* so that many can not be led astray.
May be. May be another person will think twice: do I want to pay this kind of penalty for breaking the contract/agreement/covenant?
I also believe(according to other things that God revealed) that God wouldn't kill those who said: I am out. I am leaving you, guys. I can not keep my promises any more. I am going to the Gentiles".
Those people would be free to go.
But only those who would teach that certain laws of God are wrong or stupid and they would want all people to accept what they say and do as the true doctrine, those had to go in a way that nobody else would wanted to destroy the souls of many.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta love God's justice. Also funny that God tasks *man* with carrying it out. Why can't he do his own dirty work?
May be Gods do not do dirty work? May be Gods progressed for higher level? May be dirty work is for those who can BECOME Gods.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also why not give us a proper book instead of this vague, stupid Bible subject to multiple revisions by lunatics?
God gives His Prophets and Apostles. They teach what God has to say TODAY in 21st century to His children.
What He said(many things) thousands of years ago may be not relevant today.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your God is imaginary, made up by priests to control you and others like you.
They do not control me. May be I just didn't notice it yet?Smile
No, really, how do they control me?
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's *why* your God is such a frikken control freak, not because he wants the best for you but because the priests know that if they give up even a little control they risk losing their nice comfy lifestyle, complete with crazy girls who want to be subservient breeding machines.
EVERY priest in true Church of God works to have bread on his table. Tithings do not go in their pockets. They pay tithings themselves. My bishop pays more than I do. My 10% is 10% of his tithing. While he makes big money(farming) his house is very simple. My house is much better.
Prophets. When they travel they do not stop in luxurious hotels. They stay at homes of the members. They do not eat in fency(did I spell it right?) restaurants.
They eat simple but good meals at members homes. Or may be at regular restaurants. They do not have luxurious homes and cars.

"Church's worth • A recent investigation by Reuters in collaboration with sociology professor Cragun estimates that the LDS Church is likely worth $40 billion today and collects as much as $8 billion in tithing each year."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/544787...l.html.csp

To bad they don't use that money to help those who need it.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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13-08-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 01:05 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  To bad they don't use that money to help those who need it.
too bad you don't know many facts about helping those who in needs.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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13-08-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 01:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 12:36 PM)julep Wrote:  Whatever floats your boat. (It doesn't sound like a pleasant eternity to me.)
May be it doesn't sound now. Black Sea with big waves doesn't look pleasant to me until I jump into it. Ah, feels good.
Conchas negras that are still alive did not look to me like a pleasant meal until I tried it. Umm, yam.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm curious about your use of the word "if." Do you mean you are unsure that you'd want to be part of one of these god families, or are you unsure about your understanding of the afterlife?
God reveals things. Sometimes we understand them right away. Sometimes we have to work a little bit to understand them. Sometimes we are not going to understand them fully in this life.
So, if God says:" this will bring you fullness of happiness", then I want it. Whatever makes me more happy, baby, I want it.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also, even when everything is working properly and as it's supposed to, having a kid hurts like hell. Do the afterlife bodies feel pain?
No, they don't feel pain(according to the revelation from God).
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Do the kids in the afterlife start out as underdeveloped babies and then grow as happens with babies here?
According to the revelations from God, Gods(Male and Female) create spirit children. How? We do not know. I assume it is very pleasant process. later they create for them earth(planet). Then they created physical bodies for first Adam and Eve.(there are many Adams and many Eves). Then Adams and Eves create physical bodies for their children. So each spirit son or daughter of Gods can obtain physical body to become Gods in the future.
(13-08-2015 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  I've never talked with Mormons about their beliefs, so all of this is fascinating to me. I can't understand why any female would want to be a member of this religion, though. The rewards seem male-oriented only.
Actually women in Church or Daughters of God are spoiled more than Sons. Membership brings so many blessings I can not even count them. Not only to women but to all members of the Church.
Every husband has a priesthood. but who benefits from it? wives and children.
Men have to do extra step to enter the Temple. Women may skip it. Easier for us.
Men and women in God's Kingdom have the same rights but different responsibilities. Because male and female are different.

If you had absolute proof your religion was a man-made invention--would you live your life any differently? Be honest. You don't have to answer here. Remember you get just one life to live.

What if you had a son or daughter who wanted to live their lives differently? Would you tell them not to because of some book? Would you ask them to take the one life they have and forgo their dreams and happiness because a group of random people wrote something in a book?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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13-08-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
Unbeliever asked very good questions.
I really like them.
Gay couple "Adam and Adam"
Male spirit is comfortable to be in male physical resurrected perfect body. Male spirit may hate to be in female resurrected perfect physical body.
Male spirit in male physical resurrected perfect body may not have a desire to be with male companion.
That is why God doesn't sanctify gay marriage. They won't become Gods. God can not support this/take away an opportunity
One more thing. Gods can not break natural laws. If They do They can not be Gods any more.
Gods can not do what is not possible according to the natural laws. For example, God can not create something out of nothing. God can not turn something into absolutely nothing.
God can not make male spirit to be comfortable in resurrected female body. It is against the natural laws.

English is my second language.
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13-08-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 01:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  Unbeliever asked very good questions.
I really like them.
Gay couple "Adam and Adam"
Male spirit is comfortable to be in male physical resurrected perfect body. Male spirit may hate to be in female resurrected perfect physical body.
Male spirit in male physical resurrected perfect body may not have a desire to be with male companion.
That is why God doesn't sanctify gay marriage. They won't become Gods. God can not support this/take away an opportunity
One more thing. Gods can not break natural laws. If They do They can not be Gods any more.
Gods can not do what is not possible according to the natural laws. For example, God can not create something out of nothing. God can not turn something into absolutely nothing.
God can not make male spirit to be comfortable in resurrected female body. It is against the natural laws.

This is nothing more than a story, Alla. It was something people made up years and years ago to explain life and the world around them. What makes you think you have the *right* story, anyway? Do you have any idea how many creation stories are out there? And, not surprisingly, they all think they have the *right* story.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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13-08-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: What do you think of LGBTQ Christians?
(13-08-2015 01:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If you had absolute proof your religion was a man-made invention--would you live your life any differently? Be honest. You don't have to answer here. Remember you get just one life to live.
Of course, honestly.
When I was investigating the Church I told myself: If God never gives me revelation in which He would confirm to me that this is His true Church, I am still going to stick to these people. I saw only goodness. Every law of God makes me:
1)a better person. I want to be a better person.
2)stronger
3)healthier
4)happier
Why would I want to change it?
I lived differently before I joined Church.
(13-08-2015 01:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  What if you had a son or daughter who wanted to live their lives differently? Would you tell them not to because of some book?
No, I wouldn't. Why would I even say this strange thing?
(13-08-2015 01:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Would you ask them to take the one life they have and forgo their dreams and happiness because a group of random people wrote something in a book?
No, I wouldn't do this. I would teach them what is right and what is wrong. And I would teach them to use their gift - gift of the Holy Ghost. He(Spirit) can teach them and direct them and confirm to them that what I taught them was true and right and good.

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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